Jump to content


Photo

A different way to make steel by...


  • Please log in to reply
122 replies to this topic

#101 Kenon Rain

Kenon Rain
  • Members
  • 1,228 posts

Posted 04 December 2009 - 10:31 PM

Well, I did it.. Is it alright to have a low carbon content in the middle of the bloom? the edges all spark wonderfully, but the core is soft. This is after I quenched, which was dumb, and beat off the slag. Its polished to 400, but shows a clear line where something is going on, either less carbon, or it didn't harden. This is after a ferric chloride etch by the way.

Oh, a stack of firebrick with a hole cut works great.

Attached Images

  • Photo034.jpg

Edited by Kenon Rain, 04 December 2009 - 10:32 PM.

Blam!

#102 Jesus Hernandez

Jesus Hernandez
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, VA
  • Interests:The Japanese sword, the falcata, photography, computers, learning anything new.

Posted 05 December 2009 - 09:00 AM

Great job!
It's hard to tell from the picture. I would guess that line may represent hardening.

Posted Image
www.JHBLADESMITH.com
初心忘れるべからず


#103 Kenon Rain

Kenon Rain
  • Members
  • 1,228 posts

Posted 05 December 2009 - 11:59 AM

Grinding on the center shoots pretty much straight sparks like wrought, its about a half inch by inch area that is this softer steel, when I beat it into waffels, will this be alright? I'm making another few runs, and a batch of charcoal today, then hopefully consolidating it all later..
Blam!

#104 Jesus Hernandez

Jesus Hernandez
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, VA
  • Interests:The Japanese sword, the falcata, photography, computers, learning anything new.

Posted 05 December 2009 - 04:23 PM

Sounds like a plan.
Working with home-made steel is more of an art than a science.

Posted Image
www.JHBLADESMITH.com
初心忘れるべからず


#105 Kenon Rain

Kenon Rain
  • Members
  • 1,228 posts

Posted 05 December 2009 - 08:38 PM

and I'm hooked, I'm going to build a veggie oil charcoal converter so I don't waste quite as much wood, we collect wvo for the coast businesses, so I have more oil than I could possible use..
Blam!

#106 K Freier

K Freier
  • Members
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south east WI-USA
  • Interests:bladesmithing lockpicking reading good books and being out doors

Posted 01 January 2010 - 08:19 PM

i tried a run wiht pieces of rebar i had tried to forgeweld on (and failed) and when i pulled out the resulting blob, the forgeweld attempt areas were the only part unmelted? any hints as to why this might be?

ill try to get pics soon
Karl

a tall glass of milk... just a quenching medium for hot cookies.

#107 K Freier

K Freier
  • Members
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south east WI-USA
  • Interests:bladesmithing lockpicking reading good books and being out doors

Posted 01 January 2010 - 08:33 PM

DSC04920.JPG
DSC04921.JPG
DSC04922.JPG
DSC04923.JPG
Karl

a tall glass of milk... just a quenching medium for hot cookies.

#108 Bennett

Bennett
  • Members
  • 892 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 03 January 2010 - 01:29 PM

It's hard to tell by a pic, but it looks a little "brassy". A lot of the rebar is notorious for copper,zinc, etc. One of the main products made from recycling.

Question on this furnace; Has anyone used it with wrought?

#109 K Freier

K Freier
  • Members
  • 189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south east WI-USA
  • Interests:bladesmithing lockpicking reading good books and being out doors

Posted 03 January 2010 - 02:16 PM

i tried a run with iron sand , and i got the sand to sticktogether but i dont acutally know how i was supposed to process it into a bar, so i ent up with pieces of iron sand in my forge
Karl

a tall glass of milk... just a quenching medium for hot cookies.

#110 Jesus Hernandez

Jesus Hernandez
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, VA
  • Interests:The Japanese sword, the falcata, photography, computers, learning anything new.

Posted 03 January 2010 - 06:13 PM

Question on this furnace; Has anyone used it with wrought?


Yes.

Posted Image
www.JHBLADESMITH.com
初心忘れるべからず


#111 Bennett

Bennett
  • Members
  • 892 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 03 January 2010 - 07:20 PM

Yes.

Well then.
Let's have it Man.
Did the conflagration do away with the silica? Was it hot enough? *to make relaltively pure iron*?

#112 Jesus Hernandez

Jesus Hernandez
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, VA
  • Interests:The Japanese sword, the falcata, photography, computers, learning anything new.

Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:24 PM

Well then.
Let's have it Man.
Did the conflagration do away with the silica? Was it hot enough? *to make relaltively pure iron*?


Unfortunately, the samples produced were "lost" and I never got the chemical analysis results on them.
To my personal analysis (spark test, forge-ability, weld-ability) the end-result was no different that what you get when starting off with mild steel as the source.

Edited by Jesus Hernandez, 03 January 2010 - 08:24 PM.

Posted Image
www.JHBLADESMITH.com
初心忘れるべからず


#113 Bennett

Bennett
  • Members
  • 892 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:08 PM

Thanks Jesus. You are a good source. :)

Did the silicates that were in the wrought, make much slag in the little furnace? Thanks.

#114 Jesus Hernandez

Jesus Hernandez
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, VA
  • Interests:The Japanese sword, the falcata, photography, computers, learning anything new.

Posted 04 January 2010 - 06:39 PM

Not much more.

Posted Image
www.JHBLADESMITH.com
初心忘れるべからず


#115 Skip Williams

Skip Williams
  • Supporting Member
  • 190 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington, Va.

Posted 04 January 2010 - 06:47 PM

Description of the Japanese Oroshigane method to increase the carbon content of tamahagane that is too soft.

Here are a couple of pages lifted from
The craft of the Japanese sword By Leon Kapp, Hiroko Kapp, Yoshindo Yoshihara

oroshigane 1 589x435.jpg
oroshigane 2 586x846.jpg

Edited by Skip Williams, 11 April 2011 - 09:49 AM.

Skip Williams
The Rockbridge Bloomery
http://iron.wlu.edu

#116 Skip Williams

Skip Williams
  • Supporting Member
  • 190 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington, Va.

Posted 27 September 2010 - 03:34 PM

Bump

I've just added some info about the oroshigane process to the above post.

Anyone have more detail? Or perhaps a speculative history of its origin?
Skip Williams
The Rockbridge Bloomery
http://iron.wlu.edu

#117 J.Arthur Loose

J.Arthur Loose
  • Supporting Member
  • 2,518 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vermonty
  • Interests:Damascus Blades, the Dark Ages, Dark Beer, Dark Forests, Irish Banjo-Bouzouki-Mandola, History, Mythology, Decentralization, Bioregionalism, Heathenry, Beekeeping, Brewing, Motorcycling.

Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:35 PM

Hey all- playing around with the Aristotle today...

I used iron filings bound with an organic material with good success. It took a long time- about a half hour or possibly a little more, treating the material like a smelt, putting about 1/4 cup filings in with 1/2 cup charcoal as the level in the furnace dropped about every 6-7 minutes. I went from 700 grams of iron filings to 275 g in a compressed bloom.

I used some wrought iron I have to good success- a nice full compactable bloom, from 700 grams of 3/8" round stock to a bloom of 490 grams plus a funny little bloomer sitting right on top of the big one for a total of 674 grams, though I imagine there's some slag in the little bloomer. The little one sparks a bit higher C content and I haven't played with it yet.

Next time I'll use my local clay with 50% sand and charcoal to see if it's more permanent than the clay with chopped straw & horse manure, which held up well for 4 runs but cracked a bit on initial fire. It would have held up for another run or two but the wrought bloom was so big I just cracked it open along a fault line or two.

That's all for now... fun!

Edited to add photo of the filings bloom.

Posted Image

Edited by J.Arthur Loose, 10 October 2011 - 05:32 PM.

symb2.jpg
J.Arthur Loose
Damascus rings
Damascus blades


#118 Brian Madigan

Brian Madigan
  • Supporting Member
  • 761 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Evanston, Il

Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:37 PM

Bump

I've just added some info about the oroshigane process to the above post.

Anyone have more detail? Or perhaps a speculative history of its origin?


Here's another example of the orishigane process by a favorite source:
http://www.ksky.ne.j...html#TAMAHAGANE

He also sorts tamahagane this way, and creates the needed amounts by sorting and processing as above.
The same rules apply to scrap steel and iron. Sponge iron, electrolytic iron are mentioned as sources.
It looks like the material size is kept to 1/4" thick maximum. That would indicate carburizing by carbon monoxide in the open hearth, where the temperature of the iron needs to be around 1600 degrees I think. Reducing cast iron to make useful steel should work the same way.
Once the bloom is pulled out of the bottom and flattened to 1/4" and quenched, it can be broken and sorted again.

So this method isn't the quick and easy way to create a lot of steel, but it looks like the perfect method for a single smith, and relies on the smith's knowledge and eye for steel. This way he's making 'custom' low alloy steel, over a period of a few days.
Almost any ferrous low alloy scrap can be made into high carbon steel this way. I think the trick is to find scrap that doesn't contain a lot of what you DON'T want, which is alloys you can't get rid of with this method. Rebar might not be ideal! But it might work too. Electrolytic iron looks perfect for carburizing.

It's interesting now to look at the traditional Japanese forge. Its shape and dimensions make it good for all of the smith's steel working needs. It can process a range of ferrous scrap into high quality steel, forge things into shape and act as a heat treating and tempering furnace.

#119 R.H.Graham

R.H.Graham
  • Members
  • 1,786 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nova Scotia
  • Interests:Bladesmithing

Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:45 PM

Man, too cool.

Thanks Skip, Lee, Jesus, and everybody who shared in this thread.

This is the way forward for me, I'm a hardcore recycler outside the bladesmith life and this fits in perfectly.
I have craploads of material to feed a little dragon like that.

I am so on this... Back with pics when the damn snow stops at lets me get to it.

#120 Jesus Hernandez

Jesus Hernandez
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,444 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, VA
  • Interests:The Japanese sword, the falcata, photography, computers, learning anything new.

Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:07 AM

Looking forward to seeing what you make, Randal.


Posted Image
www.JHBLADESMITH.com
初心忘れるべからず





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users