Jump to content


Photo

tang hole


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 04 December 2008 - 04:30 PM

How do you guys make your tang holes....i have gone through a few would be handles because i tried to drive it on there...I cant see to make the whole wide enough.

I drill one hole right down the center and all the way through. Should i use something to hollow it out more? I dont want it to be too loose.
Practice random acts of Viking

#2 KPeacock

KPeacock
  • Members
  • 280 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN
  • Interests:Outdoor activities including: Hunting, fishing, hikingm, canoeing, SCUBA diving, logging, etc.

Posted 04 December 2008 - 04:36 PM

are you trying to have a pressed in blade? are you planning to pin it, or epoxy it? There was a post just a few days ago on this site regarding some of the specialty tools folks have made to use for this purpose.

Apparently a secret of finishing was accidentally shared as well. It involves the use of epoxy and teflon tape.
Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal.

#3 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 04 December 2008 - 04:39 PM

are you trying to have a pressed in blade? are you planning to pin it, or epoxy it? There was a post just a few days ago on this site regarding some of the specialty tools folks have made to use for this purpose.

Apparently a secret of finishing was accidentally shared as well. It involves the use of epoxy and teflon tape.

yeah i am pin and epoxy it. I will hunt for that tread.
Practice random acts of Viking

#4 GEzell

GEzell
  • Members
  • 2,256 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Alabama
  • Interests:Bladesmithing and visual arts

Posted 04 December 2008 - 06:40 PM

are you trying to have a pressed in blade? are you planning to pin it, or epoxy it? There was a post just a few days ago on this site regarding some of the specialty tools folks have made to use for this purpose.

Apparently a secret of finishing was accidentally shared as well. It involves the use of epoxy and teflon tape.

I think this is the thread you're referring to:
hidden tangs

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook


#5 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:24 PM

I think this is the thread you're referring to:
hidden tangs

Yeah i saw that one, but i am wanting the tag to go all the way through. I saw the one about burning the hole. I am going to give that a try. I had a tree fall down in my back yard...so i have a lot of wood if i mess up.
Practice random acts of Viking

#6 Matthew McKenzie

Matthew McKenzie
  • Supporting Member
  • 533 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:12 PM

Have you tried scrapping the idea of one large hole drilled down the middle and tried two smaller holes? Drill two smaller holes about the width of your tang, then use a scroll saw blade to saw out the chunk between them.
MacGyver is my patron saint.

"There's nothing in the universe cold steel won't cut." -Conan of Cimmeria-

#7 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:46 PM

Have you tried scrapping the idea of one large hole drilled down the middle and tried two smaller holes? Drill two smaller holes about the width of your tang, then use a scroll saw blade to saw out the chunk between them.


i could also give that a try. I have a lot of wood to play around with.
Practice random acts of Viking

#8 Geoff Keyes

Geoff Keyes
  • Supporting Member
  • 2,870 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Duvall Wa

Posted 04 December 2008 - 09:01 PM

The process is the same with a through tang as with a blind tang, though you do have to came up with a way to keep the epoxy from drizzling out the end of the handle while it sets. I have used a bit of cork, or some other kind of plug that will fit around the tang.

If your tangs are fairly wide, you may have some problem with the hole taking up to much of the handle. However, while I suppose that it could happen, I have never had a knife fail because of a narrow tang. I have full hardened a tang because I thought that it might end up too small.

Drill the hole oversized (a reasonable amount) then do the back fill with epoxy. Then you do have to come up with some way to finish the butt end of the handle, but that's part of the charm.

Geoff
"The worst day smithing is better than the best day working for someone else."

I said that.

If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly.
- - -G. K. Chesterton

So, just for the record: the fact that it does work still should not be taken as definitive proof that you are not crazy.

Grant Sarver

#9 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 04 December 2008 - 09:06 PM

The process is the same with a through tang as with a blind tang, though you do have to came up with a way to keep the epoxy from drizzling out the end of the handle while it sets. I have used a bit of cork, or some other kind of plug that will fit around the tang.

If your tangs are fairly wide, you may have some problem with the hole taking up to much of the handle. However, while I suppose that it could happen, I have never had a knife fail because of a narrow tang. I have full hardened a tang because I thought that it might end up too small.

Drill the hole oversized (a reasonable amount) then do the back fill with epoxy. Then you do have to come up with some way to finish the butt end of the handle, but that's part of the charm.

Geoff



well i have four handle pieces cut, I really dont want to over drill, i would love a nice tight fit and then i will pin the end down. If I cant get that work i will drill oversized and epoxy it.
Practice random acts of Viking

#10 Geoff Keyes

Geoff Keyes
  • Supporting Member
  • 2,870 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Duvall Wa

Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:35 AM

You only need to oversize the hole 10-25 thousandths, just enough to get the tang to fit. The epoxy is not intended to hold the knife and handle together, just bed the hole so that the tang goes in the same way every time. Then you can take the handle off and do most of your shaping away from your fittings and the blade.

It is quite difficult to get a perfect slot for the tang without splitting the handle material, then it's hard to get a good fit without a glue line. Additionally, if the handle material is highly figured, after you split and re-glue, the grain won't match :( .

Just my .02,

Geoff
"The worst day smithing is better than the best day working for someone else."

I said that.

If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly.
- - -G. K. Chesterton

So, just for the record: the fact that it does work still should not be taken as definitive proof that you are not crazy.

Grant Sarver

#11 B. Norris

B. Norris
  • Supporting Member
  • 2,447 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Omaha, Nebraska

Posted 05 December 2008 - 10:05 AM

I had a tree fall down in my back yard...so i have a lot of wood if i mess up.

Fallen lumber is not really suitable for use until you are sure it is dry. If the wood is not already dry when you put it on your knife it will probably crack on you.

Something no one here has mentioned. Drilling long holes through the endgrain can be a royal PITA! The main thing you are fighting is that twist drills want to follow the grain and can quickly go from straight to sticking out the side of your handle. The smaller the drill bit, the faster it happens. Spade bits are better for drilling through endgrain because they do not follow the grain as much. If you cannot use a spade bit, usually because ones small enough are not made, look for spur bits. They will work better than just ordinary twist drills but, I've never seen one longer than the regular jobber length. No matter what type of bit, use a series of drill bits of different lengths. The idea is to only drill into the wood a little bit at a time (about 1/4") while having as much of the bit supported in the chuck as possible. If you use a big, long, bit from the beginning it will flex when you first start drilling and create problems for you. Also, drill from both ends and get the bits to meet in the middle. This way the holes on both ends are where you want them and if it doesn't quite line up in the center you can clean it up with a small saw blade, files, or a handle broach. When you glue the handle up, the epoxy will fill in any slop in the middle, and the ends, where things fit snuggly, will keep everything in alignment.

The method that Geoff suggested is a pretty quick and foolproof way to go. It is much, much, easier to drill a 1/2" hole into the endgrain than a 3/16" hole. A 1/2" spade bit will pretty much not drift at all, unless you are using far too much pressure on it and making the bit flex. You will have to wait a day or two while the epoxy dries but, it is far better than spending a day or two drilling into block after block, trying to get one that will work!

Handle Fitting ala Don Fogg
Tips Pg. #3 ala Sensei Don Third one down, titled Blind Tang Saw. If you have not taken some time to poke around Don's site, there is a lot of useful information there. My advice above is pretty much regurgitating what I've picked up looking over Don's website. Also, it is a good idea to use the search button and mine the old posts on the forum.

~Bruce~
“All work is empty save when there is love, for work is love made visible.” Kahlil Gibran
"It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them." - Alfred Adler

#12 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:15 PM

Fallen lumber is not really suitable for use until you are sure it is dry. If the wood is not already dry when you put it on your knife it will probably crack on you.

Something no one here has mentioned. Drilling long holes through the endgrain can be a royal PITA! The main thing you are fighting is that twist drills want to follow the grain and can quickly go from straight to sticking out the side of your handle. The smaller the drill bit, the faster it happens. Spade bits are better for drilling through endgrain because they do not follow the grain as much. If you cannot use a spade bit, usually because ones small enough are not made, look for spur bits. They will work better than just ordinary twist drills but, I've never seen one longer than the regular jobber length. No matter what type of bit, use a series of drill bits of different lengths. The idea is to only drill into the wood a little bit at a time (about 1/4") while having as much of the bit supported in the chuck as possible. If you use a big, long, bit from the beginning it will flex when you first start drilling and create problems for you. Also, drill from both ends and get the bits to meet in the middle. This way the holes on both ends are where you want them and if it doesn't quite line up in the center you can clean it up with a small saw blade, files, or a handle broach. When you glue the handle up, the epoxy will fill in any slop in the middle, and the ends, where things fit snuggly, will keep everything in alignment.

The method that Geoff suggested is a pretty quick and foolproof way to go. It is much, much, easier to drill a 1/2" hole into the endgrain than a 3/16" hole. A 1/2" spade bit will pretty much not drift at all, unless you are using far too much pressure on it and making the bit flex. You will have to wait a day or two while the epoxy dries but, it is far better than spending a day or two drilling into block after block, trying to get one that will work!

Handle Fitting ala Don Fogg
Tips Pg. #3 ala Sensei Don Third one down, titled Blind Tang Saw. If you have not taken some time to poke around Don's site, there is a lot of useful information there. My advice above is pretty much regurgitating what I've picked up looking over Don's website. Also, it is a good idea to use the search button and mine the old posts on the forum.

~Bruce~


Yeah i went on dons site I was just wanting any sort of tips and tricks that any one had. About the wood, i have a wood dryer that i built so it takes about 3-4 days to make wood dry enough to work with it. This morning I drilled a hole all the way through and moved it a little to the left and to the right to get as much of the material taken away, It was a little smaller, maybe 1/32 of an inch and then i slowly hammered it onto the tang that i had heated up and burnt its way through and then i pinned the small amount sticking out and its on there good and tight.
Practice random acts of Viking

#13 Michael Pyron

Michael Pyron
  • Supporting Member
  • 692 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lexington NC
  • Interests:I'm really into history of all ages but my favorite would have to be ancient germanic and celtic history which are usually the types of blades I like the most. I like being outdoors in general but really enjoy camping, fishing, rafting/canoeing, hiking and exploring.

Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:36 PM

Do you have some sort of butt-plate of metal or something hard at the end of the knife to peen the tang onto or are you just peening the tang over onto the wood, becasue it'll last much longer and be a much stronger hold if you peen the tang over a metal cap instead of straght onto the wood.

#14 Jared Stier

Jared Stier
  • Supporting Member
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville Kentucky
  • Interests:My profession - archeology

Posted 05 December 2008 - 02:41 PM

Do you have some sort of butt-plate of metal or something hard at the end of the knife to peen the tang onto or are you just peening the tang over onto the wood, becasue it'll last much longer and be a much stronger hold if you peen the tang over a metal cap instead of straght onto the wood.

No, just the wood. This is nothing that is meant to last. This is all me using scrap metal and learning before i do this to the sword i just got done making.
Practice random acts of Viking




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users