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Dust Mask or Respirator While Grinding?


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#1 kraythe

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 02:24 AM

I have been watching a lot of videos from smartflix recently on knife making and it seems that many videos have the person doing the grinding at least wearing a mask but some of them have the grinder wearing an all out respirator like a paint respirator. Which would you recommend and why?

Thanks

#2 Michael Pyron

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 03:29 AM

Dust masks are fairly worthless, you need a respirator.

#3 jamiemackie

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:53 AM

Buy a decent respirator with replaceable filters.

Why? Because breathing in metal and wood dust will eventually kill you.

#4 Dave Stephens

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:10 AM

I highly recommend that every knifemaker that grinds in a closed shop get a powered faceshield respirator like the one I have.

I'm out of town right now, and I can't remember the brand name, but Alan recommended it to me so maybe he will pipe in.

It's a full face shield that seals around your face and has a battery powered filter on the forehead portion that puts a stream of fresh air over your face.

It's not cheap, but it makes a huge difference. For one thing, you can wear it comfortably and it isn't a chore to breathe in it like a regular respirator. If I'm doing anything that involves the grinder I put it on. It's so comfortable to wear I sometimes forget I have it on and am surprised when my hand bumps into something when I go to scratch my nose.

The faceshield has already caught a brass bolster that was flung at me from my buffer, too.

Be safe all.

--Dave

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelt

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#5 Adriaan Gerber

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:10 AM

I've often wondered about that too. I am, as someone so succinctly put it, "extravagantly bearded" sometimes so most masks don't do much. I'd like to know the name of that fullface you have, Dave.

Something scary I noticed the other day: it was windy out and I had the shop doors open and the gas forge was running. I could actually see sparks flying as the iron-y dust in my shop blew into the flame.
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#6 bronzetools

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:45 AM

The paper dust masks even say on the box they will not protect your lungs.
I looked for a long time for an alternative to a standard respirator with the full cartridges.
I would love to get a full mask like Dave's but that will have to wait.
The product I found was a regular 3-M mask with very flat welding cartridges.
They are rated for metal dust and fumes and lay very flat under a welding hood or face mask.
Also another tip I learned about masks is they come in different sizes.
The ones in the lumberyards are medium and don't fit my "Fred Flintstone Head"
Get on Amazon and order a large mask ,they only cost about $8 filters are about $4 as opposed to $25 at any store
I can now wear this mask for hours with only occasionally wiping out the moisture.
This is a community that cares about it's members- Do not grind without a good mask
As always Good Luck
Steve

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#7 kraythe

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:51 AM

I highly recommend that every knifemaker that grinds in a closed shop get a powered faceshield respirator like the one I have.

I'm out of town right now, and I can't remember the brand name, but Alan recommended it to me so maybe he will pipe in.

It's a full face shield that seals around your face and has a battery powered filter on the forehead portion that puts a stream of fresh air over your face.

It's not cheap, but it makes a huge difference. For one thing, you can wear it comfortably and it isn't a chore to breathe in it like a regular respirator. If I'm doing anything that involves the grinder I put it on. It's so comfortable to wear I sometimes forget I have it on and am surprised when my hand bumps into something when I go to scratch my nose.

The faceshield has already caught a brass bolster that was flung at me from my buffer, too.

Be safe all.

--Dave


Can you give me a brand name and vendor? I am having problems fogging my glasses when wearing those things. If I had one with integral safety glasses that would be fantastic.

#8 Dave Stephens

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:31 PM

Ah . . . remembered. Trend Airshield. http://www.trendairshield.com/

I have the $249 version. Not the super spendy one.

Cheers,

Dave

-----------------------------------------------

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelt

http://stephensforge.com


#9 Michael Kemp

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 02:28 PM

@Dave - thanks for the reference!

I tried using a separate respirator with goggles but got grit in my eye anyway (goggles and respirator did not fit together quite right - - - and I've gone to a full face shield with respirator built in... but a POWERED shield/respirator would really make sense.

Here's what I got for around $100 http://www.amazon.co...94341966&sr=8-3

and it seals remarkably well with my short beard... but full power... $250 ... hmmmmmmmmm

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#10 jamiemackie

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 02:37 PM

Good point about the beard. If you have one youl need a full face jobby. Even with long stubble mine doesnt function all that well so when Im going to do some grinding I shave with a pair of clippers just so it works better.

Jamie

#11 Alan Longmire

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 02:49 PM

Thanks for catching that, Dave!

My beard, while not exactly "extravagant," :lol: is enough to make ordinary respirators useless. My mask is the now-discontinued Racal Powervisor. The Trend airshield is the same basic thing, though. When mine finally dies I'll probably spring for the 3m model with the cartridges on the belt and the hardhat/earmuff combo on top. Those Trizact belts at high speed really whine! B)

#12 Dave Stephens

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 03:51 PM

Alan -- Try picking up a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones. They fit right over the headstrap on the Airshield and work really well.

The noise of the forge, especially, almost goes away when you flip the switch. They were primarily designed to cancel out the sound of airplane jet engines, and our propane forges produce similar soundwaves. I can literally listen to very soft music while forging wearing them. Pretty cool.

-----------------------------------------------

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelt

http://stephensforge.com


#13 Arthur

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 04:01 PM

I wear a mask like Bronzetools does....Most knifemakers I see don't wear any lung protection.....Personally I feel after 40 years of metal work if ther's damage to my lungs it's already done...I knew many metal workers,my dad,grandad,uncles and all the old timers I worked with who all breathed metal dusts [steel and aluminum]every day for years without any ill effects.

I wear hedphones for noise but after all these years of machinary,motorcycles,outboards and rock 'n roll I'm surprised I can hear anything.

I am not suggesting that anyone abandon their saftey equipment...we're adults and what you choose to do is of course your decision...I am merely relating my own experiances...Please note I grew up in a world without seatbelts or airbags,heck we even rode our bicycles without helmets.

Edited by Arthur, 06 January 2011 - 05:51 PM.

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#14 Adriaan Gerber

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:23 AM

Has anyone made one of these mask themselves? I've made one that uses a snorkel and I know Ric Furrer has something similar. Mine got a bit cruddy and is hard to clean. I had visions of breathing spores instead of dust.
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#15 Meisenmann

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:30 AM

Well, exposition to fine dusts of metals and especially wood can be extremely harmful. You will not get ill in a short time, all diseases from it come over a long time. Of course there are people who expose themselves for dozens of years and die at 90. There are also chain-smokers who live that long. But I would not make a general rule out of these individual cases.

Edited by Meisenmann, 07 January 2011 - 09:30 AM.


#16 Michael Kemp

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 01:50 PM

I got serious about respirators after inhaling brass dust suspended in the shop air - bled from the nose for 2-3 days and had a nasty cough for about 6 weeks.

I got serious about full face protection after getting a piece of grinder grit in the right eye socket. At least it wasn't a fleck of steel - I've talked to a couple of knife makers who got steel in their eye - it starts rusting immediately and by the time you get to the eye doctor they anesthetize your eyeball, pick out the steel, then use a glorified Dremel tool to grind away the dead eyeball tissue.

Just sayin'

Michael Kemp

Edited by Michael Kemp, 07 January 2011 - 01:52 PM.

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#17 Meisenmann

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 03:19 PM

Funny story: I grind with respirator and safety googles (that cover "all sides"). One time during my holidays I walked through a city with my girlfriend and *splash*...I got a hot steel fragment into my eye that seems to have flown out of a window of the second floor of some house where they were doing some renovation. my eye was burning and weeping for some minutes, after it stopped I thougt nothing more of it. Before going to bed I saw the little lesion in my cornea due to the bright light and the mirror in the bathroom. Luckily the next day we went home again anyway and I got to the doctor who drilled out that part of my cornea where the rust had settled in.

The ironic thing is: I never got anything in my eyes during grinding. But, the one time I am on vacation, I immediately catch some random splint with my eyeball. :ph34r:

#18 Patrick Hastings

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 03:17 AM

The paper dust masks even say on the box they will not protect your lungs.
I looked for a long time for an alternative to a standard respirator with the full cartridges.
I would love to get a full mask like Dave's but that will have to wait.
The product I found was a regular 3-M mask with very flat welding cartridges.
They are rated for metal dust and fumes and lay very flat under a welding hood or face mask.
Also another tip I learned about masks is they come in different sizes.
The ones in the lumberyards are medium and don't fit my "Fred Flintstone Head"
Get on Amazon and order a large mask ,they only cost about $8 filters are about $4 as opposed to $25 at any store
I can now wear this mask for hours with only occasionally wiping out the moisture.
This is a community that cares about it's members- Do not grind without a good mask
As always Good Luck
Steve


I like those 3m Half masks. That one looks like the 5000 series. It it made from a polyurethane and tends to get a strange bacterial growth and breaks down over time. For a couple dollars more you can get the 7000 series which is made of silicone and seems to suffer from neither problem. Well worth it and has a better nose bridge fit and seal. They use the same filters. I have a small beard, but I can still get the mask to seal properly according to the seal tests listed with the mask. You can't go wrong with these for the price. I got mine off amazon for $24 and p100 (good for grinding) filters are very inexpensive. The welding filters are a bit more, but they are rated for metal fumes and thats handy in my line of work. The 7000 series will also accept a connector for positive pressure line.

I also have a Trigon full Face/head respirator. Its based on a hardhat and the battery operated filter unit sits around your waste keeping the weight down on the helmet. I like it ok, but its heavy and I can't find prefilters for it anymore. If I could find the prefiltes again I was thinking about taking the power unit from the Trigon and adapting it to the 3m Mask. I could grow my beard out then :P
The Trigon is nice for really dusty stuff as it protect your entire head and neck line. Change your shirt after your done and your pretty clean.

patrick :




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