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Ron Hicks

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Posts posted by Ron Hicks

  1. kogarasumaru-tsukuri style -shinogi- niku --utsuri - , you have lost me

    Ive know what warp - distal taper - hardening - quench- broken means.


    I seem to recall some one saya when quenching in water- in and out fast not so much shock

    sounds like your kogarasumaru-tsukuri wasnt normalized very well and when you shoved it in the water

    your mune cracked the steel.


    Just a guess but hardening in water I bet everything has got to be perfect - I have only used oil

    whats all that stuff mean ?:huh:

  2. 6150 is definately harder to move under the hammer than 5160. Temper for 6150 for me has worked great at 375-400. If what you have is truck spring and moves easier than 5160 I would suppose that it is not 6150. I am not aware of 6150 being used for truck spring.


    Tim so after you tempered was it really hard - a 120 grt belt wont hardly touch this stuff and I tempered at 400 deg. for 1 hour 3 times. in an oven that I checked the temp dead on 400 deg.

    "If what you have is truck spring and moves easier than 5160 I would suppose that it is not 6150. "

    Thats A BIG NEGATIVE it is harder to forge than 5160. Did you read my first post ?


    This is a big bowie blade and trying to bring it to the edge. I guess I could leave it the way it is but I may die from old age before I get it shapened.


    Have you the book The Wonder of Knife Making by Wayne Goddard

    I think page 26 he talks a bit about 6150

    sounds the same to me.


    It really doesnt matter to me what it is I just dont want to screw up the temper

    any ideas????????


  3. I have tempered this blade at 400 deg. for 1 hour 3 times

    It was forge from a Big Truck spring and from what I have read about

    6150 sounds just like 6150.


    I have made a few knives from 5160 that I bought and it is very different

    harder to forge

    it anealed softer

    the hardened steel was a gray blue ( the veg. oil was heated to 150 deg.the same as with the 5160)

    it shows a temper line

    I did notice after tempering there was hardly a staw color very light.



    It is very hard after tempering - i checked the oven temp. and was on the money.

    Any one know what temp. to temper 6150 ?

    Should I just bump the temp 25 deg. and check for a color?



  4. By the way, I don't care how you make your cornbread, just don't put any dang sugar in it!!!


    Guy Im with you on this one

    I think it should be law - NO SUGAR IN CORNBREAD!


    I think I have about enough drippings - I thought I would keep it frozen when not in use

    to keep the big stink factor down.

    There ant nothin worse than rancid Bacon Grease PPPU!



    I bet you are right about the Bears, I bet it would draw them like files .


  5. Ron, If you want to stress reieve yourself ,soak in a hot tub for 1 hour. <_< .....Normalizing removes stresses, refines grain, and makes grain uniform throughout the piece [" all things equal"]. If you are going to refine grain by hardening three times it doesn't make sense to normalize more than once .BTW the longer the steel is above the critical the more scale and decarb you will have ! Depending on the steel and the cooling rate the anneal will produce fine or coarse pearlite or fine or coarse spheroidized structure . The most uniform structure and easiest to subsequently heat treat is to start out with martensite which is then sub-crtically annealed . This results in a fine spheroidized annealed structure....Kbaknife, after subcritical anneal there's no reason to ramp down as no further changes will occur if air cooled from the anneal.


    Thanks for the reply- Im sure this is just plain simple for you but

    I do not have the experence and wanting to understand whats going

    on with heat treat.

    I understand what I need to do

    you did not waste your time

    I did get a fine blade out of all this :)



  6. A grease quench works great. It will stink and smoke, but you will get hard blades. If all is right, it will blow the scale off the blade. Throw in a sprinkle of saltpeter and sal ammoniac for the ancestors. :35:

    where do you get saltpeter and sal ammoniac ? and what is sal ammoniac ?


    I think it was and old timey thing - when they wanted to harden something very hard.


    I was told a story of tempering a knife thats hard to sharpen by baking it in a pan of cornbread


    And I thought everyone knew you cant make cornbread with quench oil :blink:


    kbaknife :D

    So you dont like Bacon ? Try a little on yer taters or a take a dab and welt your greens with it

    EMM EMMMM Boy Howdy I love Bacon :D


  7. Sorry mete

    I anealed it so I could work it with files- the steel Im not sure its an old Leaf Spring maybe Ford ?2 ton


    it goes nonmang at about 1425.

    I have it ready to harden I will normlize it again then harden in veg oil heated to 150

    3 times.

    Temper at 400 3 times

    Ill use my magnet & see what happens

    sorry for buggin you


  8. Chuck

    My Dad was in the CCC camp at Shell Knob.

    My Granddad Hicks and my Dad grew up in Taney County

    their place was near a spot in the road called Luttie I think

    it was just a small Country Store.


    Hey by chance did you ever go to McDowell

    I think it was the old school house for the music??

    Dons goin shoot me went from Arkansas Toothpicks to Family



  9. Tough and holds and edge well ? I thought that was what a knife was supposed to be. :) I see no point in annealing after normalizing. I would also normalize no more than twice. The point of triple hardening is to refine grain it doesn't have to do with stress.

    It doesnt help the grain size anealing after normalizing only making it soft.

    I thought Ed Fowler Anealed ? maybe Im reading it worng?

    So If I anealed ( I use files no grinder ) should I repeat the 3 normalizing cycles

    then 3 harding cycles?

    I only heated to 1325 when I anealed

    ( in a pipe with 10lbs charcoal on top 1325 temp. for 2 hours- 2 hours latter temp. droped to 1275

    - next morning temp 930) I think that is close I did it last week should have taken notes.

    Could this Normlized the blade as well as Anealing?

    This was the softest I had ever gotten a blade-it worked great with files.


    I have a little more sanding to do, just about ready to harden.


    Thanks for your help


  10. Bryan

    Hey your are right Van Dorn lost big time up hear in Pea Ridge " Battle of Elk Horn Tavern"


    My wifes Great Great Grand Farther was a little boy in Cane Hill when things were

    a popin at Prairie Grove - also my wifes family lost 2 Frams to the Gov.

    when Pea Ridge became a Park & I think the Fosters owned one of the farms

    during the war.

    The little Southwestern Mo. town where I grew up Granby supplied Lead to both sides

    along with a few small battles in and around between North & South. My Granddad died from Rocks in the Box form working in those lead mines.


    My Mother remembers her Dad telling when he was a small boy of a Mean Rough Man that got

    his dues in Granby they drug him behind a horse through town till he fell apart.


    My Mothers Great Great Grand Mother was travling with a younger sister to work on a near by

    farm ( trin to help get a little sumthin for the family to eat) was kidnapped by a man - that night when

    he had fell a sleep drunk on Moonshine, she got lose and poured molten lead in his ear so they could get away & not worry about him coming after them.


    Just a little of my Carpetbager History

    You know things were kinda Rough back in the day,

    I guess thats why they carried those big ol Arkansas Toothpicks


    My mistake I thought that was Van Dorns Battle Flag


    Sorry for gettin off subject ,I climbed under the Fence :blink:

    Ron :P

  11. mete


    Im trin to learn



    reducing grain size

    Now the 3 normalizing cycles stay on the cool side of non mag.

    then aneal but stay below critcal hold above 1000 for 2 hours

    and cool slowly to room temp.

    With the triple hardening you are further reduceing the grain

    just hitting non mag. and into the quench until temp. of oil

    remove cool to room temp. repeat 2 more times.


    Rather than heating to non mag. and soaking to get screaming hardness,

    would it be better to not be so sever with the hardening and doing 3 cycles with less stress?

    So you have an tougher blade thats not so brittle thats been through less stress

    finer grain thats easier to sharpen and cuts longer? I know it needs tempering but isnt less stress better?


    Is this wrong ?



    The reason I asking is:

    My last knife 5160 I heated almost 1600 and quenched

    it was screaming hard so hard the steel at the edge contracted so much it pulled the

    tip down a good 1/4 in. I tempered at 350 for 3 - 1 hour cycles { maybe I should have done 3-2 hour cycles}

    Its a bear to sharpen its tough and holds a edge well though.

  12. Bryan Bryan Bryan

    I really dont think Van Dorn would agree.


    Like it or not what it all boils down to is


    "It was also a frontier brag. In the 1830's & 1840's, some Bowie Knives and the Arkansas Toothpicks were the same"


    Are you sure you are from Arkansas ?- its your History Brother !

    Be proud of it!


    Ron ;)

  13. I think someone once told me that you should harden

    before putting a False Edge on a Clipped Point Blade.

    Does it matter? problems warping?


    I have so much work in this blade I want to make sure

    Thanks Ron

  14. Don

    Thanks for getting Jim Batson to take a look at this thread and setting things straight.

    I for one hate hearing the Musso Bowie came after James Bowie , I had allways look at

    the knife thinking about Bowie defending himself - looping off heads,disembowling & splinting skulls.

    There are a lot of great stories about the Bowie Knife - true and untrue its part of the history and

    thats why Its my Favorite style of knife.


    From the State that Invented the Bowie Knife



  15. Colors

    Im not worth a hoot at telling temps by color. What I do is each time I start I ll check with a magnet to get the idea of what color it is that time of day & re check it ever so often.

    At night and when its darker the colors are brighter looking than full day light.


    Shadows and normalizing I think when you heat to non mag. the carbon melts & mixes with everything releaving the stress and the shadows is where it locks back up.


    I think I read it in Ed Fowlers book

    Once you see it darken down then it brightens then darkens again - heat it up again and watch it cycle again-

    then on the 3rd time let it air cool complety.



    I would go with what the Magnet is telling you and not worrie about what the books say to much.


    Im still pretty Green myself

    hopefully someone will jump in

    Trin to help


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