Ron Hicks

Have a knife made from 5160. Going to be using a furnace, plus anti scale compound for the heat treat. The Heat Treaters Guide say's to normalize at 1600 F, and austenize at 1525 F. I know this book is talking about larger sections then knife blades. Does anyone disagree with these temps? If so, what temps do you recomend for a triple normalizing, and then austenizing? Thank you. :notworthy:

You know I keep running in to things that dont quite agree with info. in my books. Im not sayin the books are wrong but how do you know for sure exactly what the steel is yea it might be 5160 but is it from the same batch the guy in the book checked ? could maybe the alloys be a smige different ? say even where you have got the steel from maybe could have been a mix up and really not 5160? using salavge steel are you sure its 5160?

Like I say I guess I was lucky and noticed my non magnet temps. were way off from what the books say thinking I had 5160.

From now on first thing Im doing is check with a magnet & temp. probe - watch my shadows to know my lower temps and higher temps just double check things.

Im still learning

maybe someone with more know how will help out

Ron

I can not rember where I read about it but

Bacon Grease was an old time Quench

any how Ive been savin all my Bacon Drippins

for about a year not really sure how much I have

it expands when cold .

I know its good on taters and in cornbread

what do you think about it for a Quench ?

I can just see it now every time I harden a blade

every stray dog for miles will be headed my way .

Ron

I did the same as Scott just ground an edge on an old file- very rough on the hands.

I did my angle by eye ball 35 degrees.

With the handles you should be able to really peel some steel.

Thats my next project a Sen with Handles

Ron

:35: :notworthy:

VERY VERY GREAT !

THe fossil walrus is wonderful

Ron

Great Sword

I really would like to make one myself someday

Ron

Hey thats what I need - really like it .

Thinking about making a Drum Forge for HT

Great Job

Ron

I did a dab of wackin on this thing today thought I would show the Grind Lines

well they are really File Lines, Oh man is my arms and wrists are wore out + a file.

So much for 2 hours getting it ready to harden .

Now I got her down to the nubins, I did the bevels 1 1/2 tall and the thickness at edge

is about a dime thickness.

I heated the tang and turned it up a dab and took about a 1/4

more off the ricasso , also I took off a bit & rounded the end of the choil to the ricasso.

After doing this the blade looks thicker at the edge ( well it is thicker at the edge)

Its the last 2 inches that gets thicker, I thought it might look funny to make my grind lines

climb up to have the edge bevels the same, how about just changing the angle a little and

blend it to the rest of the edge?

I still havent figured out what to do for a furel , I keep thinking black pipe but I dont really

want to do that.

Oh yea just about forgot False Edge should I do it before harding ??? seems like I read some where to do it after ?

Ron

I wanted to see what you think about this angle of the handle.

Ive look at other knives that James Black may have made

and noticed that the Coffin handles angle up from the blade.

I guess so when in the hand the point is up maybe to go under

the rib cage easy?Sorry

They kind of look like they wacked something really hard and bent,

I think they were made that way.

I have filed my shoulders and left 5/8 at the choil I hope thats enough

I have the furel drawn at 1 1/8 tall - handle & furel 4 1/2 long the end of

handle is 1 3/8 tall. Do you think this looks about right?

How about the guard length? I need to make the ends more rounded.

Any ideas on making a Furel?

Thanks Ron

Greg

Don has a how to on his site

http://www.dfoggknives.com/photogallery/Ma...n/makingsen.htm

way better than the photo I could take

I got some small little curls but it flat took the steel off -

I think I was working it to fast and got carbide pimples?

I would need to stop and file them out and then the sen would scrape again it gets hot.

I just ground an edge on a old file and kept it cool

its just about like a spokeshave for woodworking.

Ron

Sorry I did not mean to make anyone uptight.

Ive been working on a big knife and ready to grind it.

Well all my belts are shot & I bearly got it profiled.

Ive been looking at the Sen Don uses.

I grabed an old file and ground a edge on it & gave it a try.

Oh Brother! they work great, I think I would have spent a week with a file

2 hours of scraping I have this thing cleaned up- bevels and flats set I need to do a little

file work and hand sanding . I think in 2- 3 more hours I could harden this thing.

Very glad I tried the Sen I for one will used one from now on.

Thanks Don

Ron

Greg

That is a Great Knife - I see why people want them.

Rex

Great Knives like to see you keep goin

Ron

Chuck

If I ever get that far I would like to do something like the sheath in the movie the Alamo.

Is it called a "Frog" that the sheath hangs on ? I want to do a Throat and Tip on the sheath- brass is what Im thinking of using for the gaurd.

Chuck of WRL told me a wood sheath wraped in leather with a back seam would be of the 1830s era.

I not sure but want to do something to do with Arkansas of the 1830s era on the leather maybe Washington Arkansas or something to do with James Black and James Bowie.

I have long ways to go I finally got it Normalized and Anealed - Files & sand paper now.

Ron

Bryan

Im glad you appreciate my parcipitation on the subject matter.

I would like to add a few more thoughts havent time now.

Ron

Bryan Lee

Im no knife xpert and I dont know any knife makers but for what ever reason I belive its true

to History that the Arkansas Toothpick and the Bowie were the same knife.

Also the only knife in the Dagger type pics. you posted only one the Civil War Knife is what I would call in the style of a Arkansas Toothpick.

The Randall and the WW2 Daggers yea they have the name and yes they are double edged but the style is not what I think of when you say Arkansas Toothpick

Now this is what I think is in the style of an Arkansas Toothpick Bowie

I wonder what Van Dorn would have thought a Arkansas Toothpick was?

James Black can you make me a Knife like Bowies?

In the Great State of Arkansas

Ron

Lin

That is one good lookin knife :notworthy:

did you do a sheath for it?

I sure would love to see it if so

:notworthy:

Lin

Ive got to get the drawings from Al.

What do you think is missing a pomel? after forging this thing it is blade heavy I think it could use some xtra weight on the handle .

If it had a Oak handle I bet it was White Oak or Post Oak.

Chuck

I drew it trying to work out the size. really it wasnt that bad forging to shape I just forged a long wedge shape for the point and kept the edge straight , I started forging the bevels before the choil and tang until I was getting close to the length and then put the curve in last. It just took lots of beating

My problem I am having now is getting a fire big enough -even heat - to get it normalized. Im using charcoal I think I know what I need to do to my pipe Im getting a cold spot in the center of the fire.

Thanks Guys

Ron

Thanks Lin

You are the one that made the awsome Bowie that got me started.

If I can ever get this charcoal fire figured out so I can get the heat treating done.

3 inches bigger on a blade makes a big differance I could not imagin doing a sword blade.

I hope I can someday.

Hey do you know what the Handle on the Musso Bowie was made of? also did it have a tang nut in the end of the handle ?

I wonder how it felt in the hand?

It is for sure is a hunk of steel

Thanks

Ron

Stick it in boiling water that should read 212F

I checked it - our stove will not get much hotter than a slow boil. when I first removed the lid and took a reading it was just a pinch over 210 then droped down to about 205 . I bet its ok when I get the forge crank up i will recheck with full boil.

Thanks Don

Burchtree

This thing is a Honeywell I bought used on ebay and bought a new K type thermocouple .

I checked out Honeywell for info. on it UDC 2000 only found info. for a modle that was close UDC 2300 Universal Digital Controller

1.1 Overview

The UDC 2300 is a microprocessor-based stand-alone controller. It combines

reliability and operating simplicity in a cost-effective 1/4-DIN size controller.

The UDC 2300 monitors and controls temperatures and other variables in

applications such as environmental chambers, plastic processing machines,

furnaces and ovens, and packaging machinery.

Its features include:

• Universal AC Power Supply,

• Input/Output Isolation,

• Isolated Auxiliary Current Output / Digital Input,

• Modbus and ASCII Communications,

• Timer,

• Accutune II Tuning with Fuzzy Logic Overshoot Suppression,

• 2nd Input (Remote Setpoint),

• Setpoint Ramp/Rate/Program,

• Three Position Step Control,

• Duplex (Heat/Cool).

The UDC 2300 is also downward compatible with existing UDC 2000

applications and installations except for RTD and 0-10 Volt inputs.

See wiring diagrams in Section 2 - Installation.

ALM

OUT

PV

F

FUNCTION

AUTO

TUNE

MAN-AUTO

RESET

SET UP

RUN

HOLD

C

R

L

12

12

SP 2300

2300

DISPLAY

M

A

Figure 1-1 UDC2300 Operator Interfaceà.

I seem to remember taking it a part and switching a little dodad to K setting

Im not sure might be able to control temp on a gas forge or control heat treat with it?

Ron

Is there a good low tech. way to check K type temp. probe? I dont think its reading right

Ron

Thanks Chuck

I think I need to take more off the belly looks kind of like my belly .

Blades that large will bend under their own weight if they are put in the fire on the flats. Try it either edge up or edge down and see if it helps.

OK - thats what I did edge up - I bent the blade when i pushed it in the Vermiculite to anneal.

I thought I would try to avoid that by wrapping it in refactory blanket - I guess its like a dumb ?

Ill just go ahead and give it a try

Thanks Ron

I belive the bit from the Bowie Primer is from 1830s.

Ron

Thanks

Don & Murch for the info.

Im working with a 2 ton truck leaf spring- not sure it may be from Ford? 5160?

Don I made a pipe. I had a 2 in. leftover pipe I weld ends on burnt holes down the length

cut a saddle on a short 3 in. pipe and welded them together. I set it in the fire pot and

pour ash around it to get the air in the pipe. It works good I may enlarge the holes a little.

Looks like Im getting a cool spot right in the middle. I think Ill plug the center hole and see if that helps.

I have been able to get it normlized (1600) though I just moved the blade a little .

I have another? I think it will work

Annealing - I brought it up to 1525 and pushed in to pre heated Big bag of Vermiculite . Normlizing I had to do it 3 times to get the blade to stay straight , I shoved it tip first down in the Vermiculite as soon as I did it

I realized that I probally just bent the blade. I was right.

I have some 1 in. refactory blanket I thought that I can redo straighten normalize and to Anneal get to temp and lay it on the blanket and wrap it up ?

Do you think that will work?

Thanks for your help

Ron

I would like to add a little something from the book

A bowie Primer

Era / Man / Knife

by F.R. Winchell

Travelers to the Western United States reported

on the brawling with Bowie Knives and reported seeing ruffians

" picking their teeth and paring their nails " with frightful looking

Bowie knives. A bowie knife was so certain to appear in a quarrel that

an English writer commented, "So much is the case that in a violent

argument with a Memphis or Vicksburg man, it would be unsafe to

scratch the back of your neck, for it is down the back that the Bowie

knife is often kept."

I think a Real Arkansas Tooth Pick is has got to be Made in Arkansas