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Everything posted by Jokke

  1. Moikka Niko, how did this project go on? Did you manage to homogenize the piece and forge it into a bar or even into a small blade? Achim used pine for the charcoal in his big tatara this summer: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=86207 they had the oportunity to use over 3 tons of high quality pine-charcoal and 1,3 tons of high qual (over 66% Fe) ore from southern africa, because Lohmann Steel corp from Witten Herbede sponsored the whole thing - they took out a chunk of nearly 400kg most of it was finest "tamahagane"c-steel, from which they formed a big piece, after nine foldings they had a steel with 0,46%C which was very "clean" C = 0,46 % Si = 0,06 % Mn = 0,005 % P = 0,02 % S = 0,0009 % (!) I have had the chance to be there when they broke the oven open and forged the smelt, "big theater" great to watch kovasti terveisiä
  2. Hi Greg, I tried nearly the same on some rather dendritic wootz of mine - in one case the pattern changed slightly after dissolving the carbides and giving the piece a couple more heat cycles, but not much - sorry I do not have pics but then I thought that I had been asked, how did I do the roasting or diffusion heat before the smithing cycles and you did, as far as I understood, not mention any diffusion heating I understood Achim Wirtz in such a way that the diffusionheatcycle is important for the carbide structure to move at all, or more easily... two pieces that I made had been without diffusion heat and they did look like your piece, rather dendritic - no flow at all, after more than 80 heat cycles and "hand"forging another point about the carbides - well, we do want the ironcarbides to become as small as possible through forging (DET.. for example)while we hope that the other carbides align and form bandings to have a nice looking blade I am not sure if these carbides really do get "bigger" through this process, in the sense of "coarser" and that this would help with the bandings... did anyone do any measurements on this? like you guys say, just my three cents... best regards
  3. me, too I can add good idea with the pyrometer, it helped me to get a much better "feeling" about the the color range in which forging wootz is good I used my first one to try to get more control on my smelts, only to see it show "tilt" when the furnace went over 1200°C, after that I bought one that goes up to 1600° and my propane furnace did get that one to tilt also Greg made me more aware of what happens inside the cake when the heat is getting near the melting point of the cementites, "( as is typical... the higher the alloy the lower the melt temp )" like you wrote that you saw "the juices flow" - I try to wait when I find the ingot too bright in colour - and do use the pyro to get a feel of control in which colourrange of the hot steel it is safe to hit and forge the ingots look bigger than 300gr but that is a nice size for a blade or two Greetzes
  4. Thanks for sharing, Ric! I did put the link into my german thread on messerforum.net it is a nice way to bring others nearer to crucible steel, by the way, did you notice any differences in the achieved bandings, when using power hammers or hand hammers? I am still collecting infos on that special part, and the effect of "fullering" the edges, too being more into the handhammering after I have seen probs when the machine hammering was done too fast or too hard... Greetzes
  5. Quote SteveG:>> I'd aim for something like 1.25% carbon in your final product. 1.5% is getting very close to a non forge-able iron. Plus, it may well have picked up some carbon from the graphite crucible. From your spark test description I think this ingot may have crossed over into non forge-able. The two ingots I made (with the kind help of Ric Furrer) had great carbon bursts but non of those orange dead ones you get from cast iron.<< Hi, I do not know from where you have gotten the idea that any steel above 1,5%C was unforgeable, Steve, but it does not apply to the ingots I made so far, some beeing over 1,6%C - they are simply fuller of carbides and harder to work on, but far from unforgeable - maybe that starts a bit over 2,1%C; but as long as your ingot doesn't have a copperish shine to it, you are most likely below cast iron by the way, Michael, it looks like there could be some % of chromium in your ingot?! Very big dendites, indeed how is forging goping? any count on cycles yet? regards
  6. nice piece of work and simply worth any x-mas-effort, I would say just hope that my bar will soon show up at least half as nice as this one, Dmitri! pls show the whole thing when you have finished it! best regards Jokke
  7. Hi, So you should have had fun to be along in what we did in July in a place called Kleinenbremen, a small town near Minden, Westfalen: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=79301&highlight=Kleinenbremen check post #5 for pics, we got 1,7 T of ore out of this old ore mine and had a couple of Renn-fires there and I made a small cake out of the smelted iron for the guys who did put up the whole thing about secrets... well for me it is about sharing and thats what we all do here, don't we?! anyone can keep their secrets, if they want to, you too of course best wishes
  8. yes. super! had to put a link to my german thread to make more people aware! Thanks a lot for sharing, and YES: no secrets! that's what I love very clear experience and nice ingots with a clearly defined range of C and weight Greetz
  9. Thanks Jeff, makes it really easier to read and follow as an instruction - did you try this method and if, how did you control the temps? Greetz
  10. Hello, I will try to put in a quote on DET that I found: All ( should read B DET DET - Divorced eutectoid transformation process and product of ultrahigh carbon steels A method for processing steel employing a divorced eutectoid transformation comprising the steps of: a) heating steel to a temperature in excess of the upper critical temperature, to form an austenite matrix in which substantially all of the carbides are dissolved; cooling the steel from the upper critical temperature to about the lower critical temperature, and forging the steel during at least part of the cooling step; c) cooling the steel to below the lower critical temperature to form pearlite and ferrite; d) reheating the steel to a soaking temperature approximately 50° C. above the lower critical temperature; e) soaking the steel in the soaking temperature range for a sufficient time such that the major portion of the pearlite is dissolved into the austenite matrix; and f) cooling at a rate equivalent to air cooling a second time to below the lower critical temperature. Steel treated in step (e) is forged during step (f) before it is cooled to the lower critical temperature. Steel treated in step (e) is forged during step (f) both above, at and below the lower critical temperature. A method for processing steel comprising the steps of: a) heating previously normalized steel with a carbon content from about 1.0% to 2.1%, to a soaking temperature approximately 50° C. above lower critical; maintaining the steel treated in step “a” at a soaking temperature for a time sufficient such that the carbides are dissolved into the austenite; and c) cooling at a rate equivalent to air cooling the steel of step “b” to below the lower critical temperature. Steel treated in step “b” is forged during step “c”, before it is cooled to the lower critical temperature. Steel treated in step “b” is forged during the step “c”, both above and below the lower critical temperature. A method for processing steel comprising the steps of: a) heating previously hardened steel with a carbon content from about 1.0% to 2.1%, to approximately 50° C. above the lower critical temperature maintaining the steel at a soaking temperature for a time sufficient such that the eutectoid carbides are dissolved into the austenite; and c) cooling at a rate equivalent to air cooling the steel of step “b” to below lower critical temperature. Steel treated in step “b” is forged during step “c”, before the steel is cooled to the lower critical temperature. Steel treated in step “b” is forged during step “c”, both above and below the lower critical temperature. tried to make it "better" to read
  11. Yes, Dmitri, blessings would be great but I decided that this cake will first be cut in two, then checked and if the inner part looks like a dense and clean stuff, and only then I will put it into the oven, to dissolve the carbides again, at >1200°C and then try it with a big machine hammer (a "Fallhammer" to be precise). If it does not work out -its what I expect at the moment,- I will have lots of alloy-material for all coming up smelts although I wanted to make one with a half procent of pure silver, to be added to a small amount of tungsten or vanadium - I read about that in an old german writing on the making of steel, with the crucible steel I am waiting to produce a blade like Niko did, watered looking, or cloudy and I am quite sure that this will not be achieved by stuffing in so many alloys ay I did here. Here you can see my latest knife: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?p=741711#post741711 Greetz
  12. Hi Klaas, thx! The cake has been quite big and we did cut it in two pieces, one was hammered by my friend, without diffusion heating and after he heated his piece up too high, it started to crumble under his blows (bummer!! ) he tried to rescue some of it and gave it back to me. So I tried to get it cleaned and smoothened to add an ferric etch. It does look very "dendritical" as Achim would say. I'll try to put a pic here: have a little piece of it still and maybe I will be able to make a very small blade out of it: my half was put into an oven with >1230°C for over an hour and I did not yet start to forge it, need much patience for that stuff my new melt did not go so well though there will be pics in the other thread.. Grüße Jokke
  13. Hi folks, thanks for replying, @Jan: Dmitri is right, I am using pure iron, not the magnetite (which I would first put into a "Rennofen", to get the iron) so to say a sandlike form that is normaly used to hotcut castiron, I do have a datasheet: C100.29 made by Höganäs (AB Sweden)that says 0,21%C max, Fe 98.5% O-tot 0.75%, S 0.005%, P 0.002% (so this can be for a new count)- but I did not leave it open to the athmosphere, as you wrote, since I covered the smelt with green glas. That should keep any extra oxigen outside, I think... (!?) so my guess says it should be around 1,4% C depending on how much C the smelt took from the crucible - which, by the way, looked quite good after taking out the cake late last night. Funny enough there is some hard slag on top that did not go into the smelt and the glas did not hold it from the rest and I wonder what it is. I remember that I felt something hard swimming on the smelt, when I tried it with my rod, but I did not decide to take it out ( which I might next time!) it shows on the top The "king"! itself is very bright, shows the chromium but not as many dendrites as my normal cakes... here some pics: it was likeslag, but parts were magnetic, so I guess it was some material that did not go into melting, although the temp was right (way over 1580°C), I tried to take it off though I do not know, how deep that goes, needed some time to grind that and it was like that thing was gnawing on the grinding wheel like it was icecream, but will cut it open next time I am at my friends workspace.. by the way: the sparks had been very short and deep red anybody any ideas? It is different to anything I melted so far, but I am far from sure if it is any good idea to use that stuff (Wallex 20) at all. I had hoped it would be an easy way to get stainless "wootz", but did not read anything about Kobalt in cutting steel in advance... regards
  14. I decided to do a fast smelt today, just felt ike it when I heard and saw wild geese and cranes flying south. Into the crucible (without a lid, just some greeen glass on top) came 890gr of Wallex 20 (2,5%C-33%Cr-18%W, all Cobalt based) and 700gr of pure ironsand from Sweden. Here some pics from the flame that I tried to build tangential to the crucible, for best efficacy: blue flame: and the crucible at about 750°C: and here some pics from pieces of crucible steel together with a piece of the Wallex I used today here a piece of a chrometype wootz after "rosting" (diffusionsheating - here over an hour at 1200°C and a bit over)that I did not yet start to forge: oh -and I got myself some new handlematerial : the result of the new smelt will be checked tomorrow then I will try to take some pics... BR Jokke
  15. the good thing is that we can re-use any of the material that crumbles or falls apart, the smelting is just a first little part of the way. In my opinion it is too much (or high) heat in which the carbides begin "to let go" from the inner iron matrix, which then leads to a tendency in the cake to fall apart, especially when at that point "brute" force is used upon the structure. I saw it happen a couple times, at my first billets and when friends tried their "luck" on Wootz. Nearly every time they wanted to be faster than the material allowed so in time I have experienced that if the cake is looking nearly white (or bright orange) from heat, I then had to wait until it went down to below dark-orange, to be in a safe "area" again, then I had no loss so far but like Dmitri I usually use my handhammers, to be "in touch" and to get the feel of it beginning to moove, but I hope to come to the point where I can use some machine-hammers at my friends places. Working behind the house on our terasse is still accepted by the neighbours, so I do not want to stress their patience too far but I am only a free and sparetime smith I use it to relax from work regards Jokke
  16. really nice piece with a fantastic pattern, if I understood right, you used a technique that has been described by Tchernow M. Sachse wrote about it in his book upon Damaszene steel (Stahleisen communications, Germany 2008 3rd edition). pysy terävänä! (Finish for: stay "sharp"!) best regards
  17. thx!I try to show a pic of one my latest cakes, high alloy wootz with chromium_ these are pics from our german forum, Hope you do not mind, Klaas! Greetz Jokke
  18. Hi Klaas, I like your pics of the dendrites - most of what I have learned about crucible steel came from Achim Wirtz, from Würselen, Germany and from what he and his friends wrote in the german messerforum.net. My nic there is Messer-Jokke and my main thread is: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=86118 it is on making wootz and the experiences on forging that stuff, together with some personal stuff -blades and so... I have just arrived on this forum, but by now did not find hints on the necessary heat treatment of dissolving the carbids after the smelt, at about 1200°C for at least an hour. Forging then forms the banding again by the many heat-cycles. A guy I "met" at flickr's, where he calls himself craftsmaik and had a short exchange about heattreatment. He had done the dissolving-heat or diffusionheating for over three hours, to get a forgeable outer crust, but at a lower heat (>1050°C). After that he had done heatcycles up to 800° and more for about 50 ! times, before he started the forging cycles. His wootzblades had a nice banding. My latest had a more dendritical look to them, probably because the diffusionheating was not done thoroughly enough. At the moment I am working upon two cakes, one made with lots of chromium, which makes forging even harder. The crumbling of the cakes has very often to do with a too high temperature, which means a heat at bright yellow or over, sometimes even at bright orange and if then hitting is too hard, which can also happen with a handhammer ( I have experienced that, too ) if the cake has been heated too high, one should wait for it to cool down first, without hitting it at all. It is a matter of patience and sometimes even meditation, something I love about the whole process. and yes, it does have a very addictive side @ Ismo: terveisiä! nice to meet here greetz Jokke
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