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    • Alan Longmire

      IMPORTANT Registration rules   02/12/2017

      Use your real name or you will NOT get in.  No aliases or nicknames, no numerals in your name. Do not use the words knives, blades, swords, forge, smith (unless that is your name of course) etc. We are all bladesmiths and knifemakers here.  If you feel you need an exception or are having difficulty registering, send a personal email to the forum registrar here.  

Denny Graham

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  1. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Thanks guys, and thanks again for helping out an outsider with his non-cutting edge project. I've got lots of other things planned for it, including some small forgings I want to make for the Cyclekarts that I'm building and heat treating tooling for the shop. Now......to fire and fill it all up and see how good of a "heat treater" I am. Hope I don't burn down the barn!!!!! Denny Graham Sandwich, IL
  2. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Finely got the quench tank finished. Took your advice and put a lid on it. Took longer to do that than it did to build the tank and stand. It's big enough to do a sword in if I ever decided to make one. Thanks for the help. Denny Graham Sandwich, IL
  3. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Had to spend the afternoon till dark mowing, so I dint get much done on the quench tank. I did get a weld flange machined this morning so I'm ready to weld it in place and mount the element. Got to figure out a mount for the contact thermostat, think I'll go high with that. Now ya'll got me thinkin' about the lid. Have to figure that one out so that will put me back another week. Thanks for the input Alan. dg
  4. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Got plenty of those dry chemical extinguishers Jerrod. Just about one in every room. They're fine in a real emergency, but they make such a mess to clean up and can corrode what ever they cover. I worked at a National Particle Accelerator for nearly thirty years and had fire training a couple times a year. That's why I'd like to get a CO2 bottle. They'er clean, but ya need to be careful around liquids as they can splash it or blow it out of the container or puddle and make the fire worse. Alan, I painted the base today but left the tank because I'm needing more welding on it. So......while I've gone this far, I might as well add a hinged lid to it. I was going to use a 3/4 plywood lid to keep the bugs and dust out when not in use. But it wouldn't be that much more to add an 18 or 20 ga. lid. Just last week I was looking at some gas lid struts that were on sale super cheap. Gave them a pass because I dint have an immediate use for them. Now, I can't remember where I saw them. DG
  5. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    One thing that I haven't talked much about is FIRE!!!!!! Lot of caution about oil fires it on lots of forums. All of the Leaf spring videos that I've watched just show a flash as the 5160 is dropped into the quench. The flame appear to extinguish with in a few seconds as soon as the initial vapors are used up. Applying a little logic to it, if the quench volume is large enough to pull the temp down within a few seconds then no more oil vapor will be produced. The oil shouldn't get hot enough to sustain a flame. Does that sound reasonable? I think it might be a good investment to add a CO2 extinguisher to the shop before I run this heat. Dry powder is cheap, but it would make a real mess of things if I did have a mishap. Denny Graham Sandwich, IL
  6. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    This is the inspiration car Brian. It's a 1928 Riley Brooklands Monoposto Special The one I'm building is a 3/4 scale Cyclekart replica of it, which is a form of small car with motorcycle wheels using 200cc engines. It's a relatively new hobby that is catching on out on the west coast. Hoping it will grow and spread east. Lots of interest in them and we have several new members and builders sign on to the Cyclekart forum every day from all parts of the world. The heat treat setup, i.e., forge/oven, will be used for other projects also, but for right now this is the driving force for it. It I can nail down the HT process I may try to market a small number of special springs for these to help pay for the set up. I've yet to heat treat any material, but would like to get going within a week or two with some samples for testing spring rates and loads. Denny Graham Sandwich, IL
  7. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Well, I picked up 18 gallons of pure Soybean oil at Sam's today. Putting paint on the rolling frame. Slept on the suggestions of warming the tank. It's to large of a volume to heat up by dunking heated scrap in before the quench, so......I picked up a heating element, controller and adapter at Menards this morning. Going to punch a hole in the tank side a few inches from the lower end corner and weld four studs on before I paint it's outside. Hope this water heater 120 volt, 2000 watt element will do the trick. Made to heat 6 to 30 gallon heaters. It tops out at 150°F, that should be good enough pre-heat for the oil don't cha think???? Denny Graham Sandwich, IL
  8. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Been retired for 12 years but I may be able to talk on of the guys I worked with into taking a reading on a leaf off a trailer sprint I have on the shelf. I've got springs off me '50 Chevy truck but I'm almost positive they would not be 5160 alloy but they could still tell me where the leaf was tempered to.. Yep, there are a lot of guys that get on the forums who want to take up a new hobby but have never worked our in the shop. Pop was a blue collar welder and tinkerer at home, so we boys were taught welding, machine work, mechanics and just about everything that you could get your hands into. I've seen vids where the bladesmith took a heat treated blank and bent it close to 90 deg and it still came back. Not hoping for that much perfection but I don't want to have a spring fail on me during a race. Denny Graham Sandwich, IL
  9. Canola oil....or Soybean oil???

    Thanks Alan. Din't expect an answer so soon, appreciate your response and the tips. The burners I made have pretty good dampers (threaded discs) so I can dial in a neutral or reducing flame quite easily. I've got a long background in welding dating back to when I was a kid to modern day and I'm 75 now in other words, I know a neutral flame when I see one having made a living a good part of my life as a welder/machinist. (I don't know why I'm getting this dang double space in everything I type but............) There isn't very much information about making your own leaf springs. Apparently the only ones that are privy to that are the "Spring manufacturers". I've been getting all, or at least 99% of my info on heat treating 5160 from the blade forums like this one. But.....I needn't say, just about every member has his own version of the heat treating process for their blades. Been watching all I could find of the YouTube videos about commercial spring operations and all of them I've seen bring the springs up to temp in ovens and lickety split, right into an oil quench, then to the tempering oven. So...that's where I'm getting my process lessons from at this point. I haven't been able to find any info on just how hard I need them to end up. I'll take your advice of 50 RC +/- a few points as a starting point. If I had access to a hardness tester I'd check a couple of the factory made leaf springs I've got around the shop to see what they've been drawn back to. Thanks again for the help. Denny Graham Sandwich, IL. .
  10. Just finishing up a three burner propane forge/oven that will take a three foot long part with it's 8" x 8" x 36" inside dimensions. The present project is not a sword, but is quite similar in size to a broad sword, that is, 1/4" x 1 1/2" x 24" 5160 leaf spring for a small car that I'm building. The material is new from Admiral Steel, an alloy steel supplier here in Illinois, which I'm sure some have used for new blade steel. I'm just finishing the quench tank which is a 16 ga. 12" x 12" x 48" roll-about tank, which will hold between 15 or 20 gallons of quench oil. I've been looking at the local Sam's Club and other stores for Canola oil and coming up with $30 to $40 prices plus the shipping for 5 gallons, I found Soybean oil (frying oil) for about $16, which is more in line with my fixed income since I'm retired. The question I have is,,,,,will the Soybean oil give me the same result as the Canola oil?? It appears to be about the same consistency, so it seems logical that it would pull the heat away at about the same rate as the Canola oil. I believe, from what I've been reading, that the temperature I'm looking for is 1525° F to harden the material. Then draw it back at somewhere between 400° and 600°. The temper temperature and time at temperature is yet to be determined. . I'd appreciate any input from the group.. Thanks Denny Graham Sandwich, IL