Wish me luck...

[cwilliams]

Wow looks great, question will you punch a hole and then shape or put some stock through a rolling mill to get ring shaped stock?

Curious minds want to know?

Chris

[guarnera]

Wow looks great, question will you punch a hole and then shape or put some stock through a rolling mill to get ring shaped stock?

Curious minds want to know?

Chris

 

 

 

 

Hey J,

Why not give a tutorial on how you make a ring. You showed us how you make the steel, now take us on the rest of the journey with you.

Do you line the ring with anything ( gold, etc. ) ?

 

Tony G

[J.Arthur Loose]

Alas,

 

A man must keep some secrets.

 

A lot of this process was very hard won, since folks start getting quiet right about stainless damascus time. I showed what I did because I had to figure this out based on hearsay and trial and error. There is, in fact, one tiny detail I left out because the person who told me about it made it clear that he's been burned giving advice before. I'm sure many of you can figure it out, and I'm going to try an experiment to see how critical it even is, but I will keep that confidence. I gave my word.

 

All in all, this has been a really stressful thing, ever since I realized last Fall that an unnamed stainless supplier was not working out and I had orders to fill. I have a lot of work to do and wish I wasn't off to my class at Peter's Valley tomorrow morning! These rings have been my bread and butter, and are a big part of my business plan for the next year.

 

I'm happy to share info as far as blades & ironwork itself go, but will tend to keep the jewelry secrets a little closer.

[J.Arthur Loose]

And with that...

 

[cwilliams]

Hey we understand, thanks for sharing what you did and good luck with your jewelry endeavor.

Chris

[B. Norris]

Jol,

 

I was looking through the book Mokume Gane by Ian Ferguson today and was surprised to see a combination of iron and stainless steel. This is what he had to say about it:

 

Bond Temp. 800 degrees Celsius for 60 minutes. Argon atmosphere. Workable red hot only.

Iron and stainless steel form a tenacious bond, and the resultant metal is quite malleable. The metal is very hard; it must be deformed red hot using a power hammer and it must be hot rolled; forming it is difficult and not for the faint-hearted. As with all iron objects, the metal must be passivated or patinated to prevent rust. The colour range is limited, although the stainless steel can be heat coloured a range of interference colours.

 

Just something a little different to think about. I suspect that a great textural effect could be had by etching deeply (I assume the iron would etch and not the stainless) and then rust blueing the iron.

 

~Bruce~

[Dee]

Hey, Dee, I went to check out your website and it spent a long time loading, but then didn't do anything when I clicked on stuff. It is still not up and running? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

just be patient, geez.

its been up and running for years ... and now that things have changed lots around here ... and that i hit past 10,000 hits to the page ... i figured it was time to remake it.

so it will be coming soon.

 

just taking new pics and getting stuff ready on it first.

 

the ring looks way spiffy .. and im glad that its all working out well for you

though now i need to figure out how you did it all ... just because you said that we Could probably figure it out for ourselves ... ugh .. i hate innate challenges

[guarnera]

Alas,

 

A man must keep some secrets.

 

A lot of this process was very hard won, since folks start getting quiet right about stainless damascus time. I showed what I did because I had to figure this out based on hearsay and trial and error. There is, in fact, one tiny detail I left out because the person who told me about it made it clear that he's been burned giving advice before. I'm sure many of you can figure it out, and I'm going to try an experiment to see how critical it even is, but I will keep that confidence. I gave my word.

 

All in all, this has been a really stressful thing, ever since I realized last Fall that an unnamed stainless supplier was not working out and I had orders to fill. I have a lot of work to do and wish I wasn't off to my class at Peter's Valley tomorrow morning! These rings have been my bread and butter, and are a big part of my business plan for the next year.

 

I'm happy to share info as far as blades & ironwork itself go, but will tend to keep the jewelry secrets a little closer.

 

 

 

J,

Sorry, not trying to steal your hard earned technique's. Just thought it would be interesting. I'm not into jewelry making. Could you answer one question for me, with out telling me how it done. Do you line the stainless steel rings with gold or silver, or just polish the inside. I guess with SS you wouldn't really have to line it. If you don't want to tell thats OK. I don't want to interfere with anyones lively hood. Oh, and the ring you showed looks great.

 

Tony G

[DJPratt]

i think he gold plates the rings and polishes off the high spots to leave gold in the etched out areas and the inside of the band. at least that is what i have gathered form his site.

 

~~DJ

[Mark Basford]

That's 106 feet of 24 ga. stainless coil...

 

Where did you find the coils? I've been searching the net looking for bars of 304L and 316L... and getting thinner strips never crossed my mind...

 

Did you clean the strips with anything before assembly?

 

 

thanks

 

Mark

[J.Arthur Loose]

Hey, Guarnera & DJ, the rings are lined with 18 gauge silver or gold. I have certainly thought about etching deeply, plating the ring and then sanding the high points... it would give a gold / steel contrast and the gold wouldn't scratch off if the etch was deep enough to protect it. Mine are currently just a darker, deeper etched 304 and a brighter 316. I could simply polish the interior, I suppose, after etching the whole ring so the inside was smooth stainless and thus acceptable for the interior of a relatively wide ring (i.e. non-reactive with the damp skin under a ring,) but I think that the silver or gold lining adds a certain value.

 

Mark, google stainless steel coil," and I'm sure you'll find someone close to you that sells it. The suppliers seem to be capable of extremely exact dimensions, but also tend to have pretty large minimum requirements... I had to order at least $350 worth.

 

O.K. then Dee, I will patiently await your website and more pics of your work.

[Guy Thomas]

Congratulations on the stainless pattern welding experiment! I'm sure you are glad to have another avenue of craft to explore and add to your other jewelry making and bladesmithing for income. You may not be particularly interested, but even if you don't want to make blades from it yourself you might consider making pattern welded billets of stainless blade steel for other makers, or is that trade marked by someone?

[Hataish Kumar]

Hi guys,

 

I need your help. Can any body tell me that what is mean by "two types of stainless". please sen me a private post.

 

Pakistan Directory|Active Directory |Dropshippers Directory |Something Directory

Edited July 23, 2008 by Hataish Kumar

[Jeff Pringle]

Congratulations, Mr. Loose, industries in nations around the world are already working towards providing consumers a cost-effective alternative to your artistic endeavors!

[McAhron]

Beautiful work J.I hope Im not the person who gave poor advice(hearsay).The advice I gave was for making bladesteel.Either I didnt catch the fact you were using 304/316 or it escaped my mind If I had reealized the mix I would have recommended higher temps for both welding and forging.I hope I didnt cause to much loss in time and materials.Did you recess the caps on the can?I have only had one can ever rupture that was recessed and had many failures before recessing the caps.Also stainless responds best to small manipulations.Such as several heats for twisting,heat and twist a 1/4 turn,and repeat until enough twisting is done.I try and only take 1/8th bites with the press.Well anyhow it sounds like youve got all the bugs worked out.It just makes me fell sick to think I gave bad advice.I try to only give it whith things Ive had great success with and Ive done quite a bit of stainless damascus for blades and sincerly hoped to help you.

[Richard Furrer]

Congratulations, Mr. Loose, industries in nations around the world are already working towards providing consumers a cost-effective alternative to your artistic endeavors!

 

The internet opens the world in both directions Jeff. It just seems to me that some or more giving with information that others (I found only one shop in India that would actually talk to me about techniques when I was there.)

Perhapse this is one reason why so many are so careful (some read "secretive") with the stainless welding techniques....they think the market will be gone overnight if it became common knowledge.

 

Ric

[Jeff Pringle]

Now why in the world are you addressing me, Ric - is it not obvious that I was trying to call attention to that very point, and give others (who may not read the post count and signature line before getting all helpful) a heads-up that perhaps the information superhighway (in this case) need not be a two-way street?

I guess the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, I gotta start phrasing things less obliquely!

Next post, I promise!

[Richard Furrer]

Now why in the world are you addressing me, Ric - is it not obvious that I was trying to call attention to that very point, and give others (who may not read the post count and signature line before getting all helpful) a heads-up that perhaps the information superhighway (in this case) need not be a two-way street?

I guess the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, I gotta start phrasing things less obliquely!

Next post, I promise!

 

Jeff,

It was perfectly clear to me.....I was reinforcing your point...or so I thought.

I assumed my comment about finding only one shop in India when I was there that was "open" with techniques would have illustrated the fact that most information sharing is of a single direction.

 

I have no problem with folk making a buck...it just seems that most of the time they want you to lend them the 50 cents of your R&D funds for them to make that buck.....I guess I'm getting cynical in my old age......or less idealistic...not sure if either is a good thing, but there it is none the less.

 

 

Oh, and J. --- nice looking ring!

Ric

[guarnera]

Jeff,

It was perfectly clear to me.....I was reinforcing your point...or so I thought.

I assumed my comment about finding only one shop in India when I was there that was "open" with techniques would have illustrated the fact that most information sharing is of a single direction.

 

I have no problem with folk making a buck...it just seems that most of the time they want you to lend them the 50 cents of your R&D funds for them to make that buck.....I guess I'm getting cynical in my old age......or less idealistic...not sure if either is a good thing, but there it is none the less.

 

 

Oh, and J. --- nice looking ring!

Ric

 

 

 

I'm a old, cynical, disillusioned idealist.

 

Tony G

[J.Arthur Loose]

Oh, ha ha! I just saw the post that got you started, Jeff.

 

I do get some strange requests to teach 'damascus mokume,' over the interwebs from time to time.

 

At a certain point I figure that folks can pony up and go to an art-school with a metals department, just like I did.

 

Anyway, here's the final ring, replete with original pattern & nice color contrast:

 

 

Now I have to make some new prototypes & get them photographed in two weeks for some advertising...

Edited August 14, 2008 by J.Arthur Loose

[J.Arthur Loose]

.Well anyhow it sounds like youve got all the bugs worked out.It just makes me fell sick to think I gave bad advice.I try to only give it whith things Ive had great success with and Ive done quite a bit of stainless damascus for blades and sincerly hoped to help you.

 

No worries, McAhron!

[Jeff Pringle]

Now that is a stunning bit of metalwork, well worth the R+D!

Ric, I apologize; When my attempt to wave a flag proved so immediately pointless I grew bitter and started lashing out at passers-by without reason...

[Richard Furrer]

Now that is a stunning bit of metalwork, well worth the R+D!

Ric, I apologize; When my attempt to wave a flag proved so immediately pointless I grew bitter and started lashing out at passers-by without reason...

 

Jeff,

That was bitter?....you really need to come by the shop here and I'll give you a class on bitter...it involves more than just "oh darn"....or we can just vent.

 

J....Nice contrast of materials...good finish.

 

Ric

[J.Fisher]

The internet opens the world in both directions Jeff. It just seems to me that some or more giving with information that others (I found only one shop in India that would actually talk to me about techniques when I was there.)

Perhapse this is one reason why so many are so careful (some read "secretive") with the stainless welding techniques....they think the market will be gone overnight if it became common knowledge.

 

Ric

 

Were you referring to the fact it's done in a sacrificial can, to keep an airless enviroment and at very high temperatures? Made at close to final layer count, then squished/manipulated with a press?

 

Or the fact that the rings Mr. Loose makes are seamless because they are center bored to near size from a billet cut off and have a liner swaged in under pressure?

 

I for one believe in the free exchange of information. If I know how to do it, I'll teach it/share it. If it's something relativly newish, like pattern welded stellite, out of respect to the guys who put the sweat and money into researching it, I may keep tight lipped.

 

Pattern welding stainless is just NOT "new"..... None of the jewelry techniques I've seen are "new".

 

Besides even if i taught someone exactly how I do things, it isn't likely I will have competition for it anytime soon. In fact it's unlikely that "I" will be competition for anyone else. I just make what makes me happy and sell what I make to finance making more. I'll never go to art school... and I'd bet a good many of the greatest smiths and teachers never did either. Art for me doesn't reside in a school, a book or a shop. It's in each one of us, in our eyes, our minds and our hands. It's our passion to bring it out and share it.

 

BTW - Nice ring

[Richard Furrer]

Were you referring to the fact it's done in a sacrificial can, to keep an airless enviroment and at very high temperatures? Made at close to final layer count, then squished/manipulated with a press?

 

Or the fact that the rings Mr. Loose makes are seamless because they are center bored to near size from a billet cut off and have a liner swaged in under pressure?

 

I for one believe in the free exchange of information. If I know how to do it, I'll teach it/share it. If it's something relativly newish, like pattern welded stellite, out of respect to the guys who put the sweat and money into researching it, I may keep tight lipped.

 

Pattern welding stainless is just NOT "new"..... None of the jewelry techniques I've seen are "new".

 

Besides even if i taught someone exactly how I do things, it isn't likely I will have competition for it anytime soon. In fact it's unlikely that "I" will be competition for anyone else. I just make what makes me happy and sell what I make to finance making more. I'll never go to art school... and I'd bet a good many of the greatest smiths and teachers never did either. Art for me doesn't reside in a school, a book or a shop. It's in each one of us, in our eyes, our minds and our hands. It's our passion to bring it out and share it.

 

BTW - Nice ring

Well,

Since you asked "J. Fisher" actually I was referring to how folk cast information to the wind casually when they are not the ones who had spent the time/effort/money doing the R&D to get the information in the first place and then, once taught feel it is there duty to show others how well they listened when another had shown them the path...without any acknowledgment for the education.

Perhaps you feel I am a secretive sort....? Well........guess what....recent incidents (not this) have made me think about turning off the tap of information..I'm starting to feel used.

Mr. Fisher, I don't know you, but I was around when that canister thing was very new and stainless was barely a thought. If you want a few good stories about folk not getting credit for their work then sit down over coffee with Darryl Meier, Steve Schwarzer, Don Fogg, Al Pendray, Hank Knickmeyer, Howard Clark or Ed Schempp among others...none of these mentioned actually believe in secretive work, but I can not easily recall then number of times I have seen techniques I watched them develop in private then shared openly only to have the info pass a few more times and be shown in magazines,in books or online as a "new" technique by some glorywhore with no mention of its creator..we all owe a debt to those who have come before and a tip of the hat or at least a small modicum of respect should be shown. I doubt you were born with the knowledge on how to weld stainless...or anything else and yet you give no tip of the hat to the one who taught you...only that you do not believe in secrets so you feel it your duty to be sure no technique you know goes untold.

Perhaps I am over reacting here, but it is a subject close to me....note I say subject...not technique.....techniques have origin, evolution and extinction..whereas the subject of knowledge transfer is enduring......your transfer of knowledge in this case lacks...well, for lack of a better word...style.

Also, it appears to be only done for shock value to show how much you know rather than for another's education. The poorest teachers I have had were more concerned with showing me how smart they were rather than how smart they could make me.

 

 

Ric Furrer