what a load of pretentious bullshit

[Ethan B. A. Jackson]

i recently came across this book "the razor edge book of sharpening"

 

the author has some good tips about sharpening but one or two things realy get to me.

 

this guy says that your not suposed to use oil on your hone because it gives a "supuriore(sory about the spelling) edge"

 

most profesional bladesmiths and knifemakers i have read about stress the point of using oil on your hone so help me

 

sort out this mess that hapening inside my confused head

[Matthew McKenzie]

I wouldn't call what the author said pretentious so much as it's just his opinion.

[Kristopher Skelton]

He actually says that using oil on the stone floats metal particles that act like an abrasive on the "up" side of the blade and the metal bits under the blade get pressed into the stone and clog it- he says you end up trying to shape the edge using metal flakes instead of the abrasive. His method of "dry" grinding and honing is supposed to allow the stone to wear away, exposing new abrasive while the metal flakes blow away.

 

I've used his method (though I use a slightly modified version currently) and it does produce a razor sharp edge. His book is a "hard sell" for his line of stones and hones for use in the meat processing industry, but it's hard to argue with results. Just for another point of reference, the Japanese use water stones and pour water over them during the polishing process to keep them from loading (that is to say, they don't use oil). I haven't used oil on a stone in almost a decade and I have no problem with shaving sharp edges that pass the beloved ABS 2x4 test.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Kristopher Skelton

[Doug Lester]

I love it when someone comes out with a method (especially when he makes tools used in the new method) that says the way people have been doing things for decades or centuries is all wrong. Rarely is it the case. It looks like he has a method (especially using tools that he has developed) that will work, but so will oil and water stones. Just my dollar's worth (that's two cents adjusted for inflation).

 

Doug Lester

[patrickrock]

You can use water with an oil stone (provided you haven't used oil on it yet). As Kristopher S. said, when using water you swish the stone in a bath to wash off the swarf.

 

Oil has, or course, been used for centuries and clearly works. But if you want to avoid an oily mess use water.

 

I won't comment on Juranitch's advice except to say that I've seen it elsewhere by people with no connection to him. So using a dry stone probably isn't as uncommon as we might think.

 

Sharpening methods have always seemed to me like the ultimate "Your mileage may vary" situation. I think its best to keep an open mind, find a technique that works for you and your tools, and then stick with it.

[Jeremy Vaught]

I've always used oil on the premise that it kept the stone from loading up with metal. But I can see that on finer stones, it could retain metal particles that kept the blade from polishing to a smooth edge. I'm willing to try anything to see what works first hand.

[son_of_bluegrass]

I imagine a lot has to do with specific techniques and tools. At one time I had an oil stone I hod only used dry; no oil, no water. It clogged to the point of uselessness in a few years. It may be cleanable and I may still have it somewhere. I've never used water on an oilstone but have an old broken grinding stone that I've turned into bench and hand sized pieces and use with water. I do use oil on my oilstones. I can't comment on the text in question as I've never picked it up.

 

ron

[Brian Vanspeybroeck]

Pretentious, not BS (jeez, the profanity kinda offends me...) and proof that there is often more than one way of doing virtually everything. I am always wary of folks who tout one way as "the only one best and proper way of doing this!" no matter if it is polishing, sharpening, forging, finishing, etc.

 

There are usually viable alternative and not every tool can be driven to excellent results in the hands of every craftsman.

[Beau Erwin]

*nods* If they're saying it's the best way they should really say it's the best way they've found.

Seems there's always other ways of doing things.

[sandpile]

The swarf(sp) needs to be swept away from the cutting edge-----running Water----------Oil(change oil every little bit, to get metal shavings off stone).

 

Water stones are easier to clean and unload.

 

Stones load up the same as files.

 

You can lift a lot of metal and oil in hot water and a good dish or laundry soap.

 

 

 

chuck

Edited October 1, 2008 by sandpile

[dennis mcadams]

I'm in agreement with Brian and others, one man's opinion... also, don't really think this forum is the place for that kind of language.

Dennis

[Kevin Colwell]

Hello Everyone,

I read this book, and studied it CAREFULLY when I was an adolescent and whiz at physics. I used to make my own hunting broadheads, and used a lot of this guy's stuff as a guide.

 

What he actually said was that a stream, continually flowing, of oil or water is best; followed by dry (on a stone that wears easily and consistently); followed by standing water or oil on stone due to floating particles and clogging.

 

The first post nailed this part of his argument.

 

This guy is really opinionated, and probably deliberately to challenge or shock. However, I was 17 when I first read this (20 years ago), and I had the time to experiment with a lot of what he said.

 

By and large, he was right. He provides ONE WAY THAT WORKS.

 

Of course, there is more than one way to achieve MOST things in bladesmithing, so he probably overstated his contention that his system was the absolute BEST. But, it is simple and makes sense, and provides replicable results... I have used the ideas for 20 years (many of which were spent as farm boy/rancher/hunter).

 

I am sure many of you can regularly do better than me (and probably than he is or was able). This is a pragmatic, simple, easy to learn approach for a person with new to intermediate skill levels. People with Mastery can usually achieve any given goal in a number of ways, that is part of having Mastery in the first place.

 

Just my OPINION,

 

Kevin

Edited June 15, 2009 by Kevin (The Professor)

[blacklionforge]

Hello Everyone,

I read this book, and studied it CAREFULLY when I was an adolescent and whiz at physics. I used to make my own hunting broadheads, and used a lot of this guy's stuff as a guide.

 

What he actually said was that a stream, continually flowing, of oil or water is best; followed by dry (on a stone that wears easily and consistently); followed by standing water or oil on stone due to floating particles and clogging.

 

The first post nailed this part of his argument.

 

This guy is really opinionated, and probably deliberately to challenge or shock. However, I was 17 when I first read this (20 years ago), and I had the time to experiment with a lot of what he said.

 

By and large, he was right. He provides ONE WAY THAT WORKS.

 

Of course, there is more than one way to achieve MOST things in bladesmithing, so he probably overstated his contention that his system was the absolute BEST. But, it is simple and makes sense, and provides replicable results... I have used the ideas for 20 years (many of which were spent as farm boy/rancher/hunter).

 

I am sure many of you can regularly do better than me (and probably than he is or was able). This is a pragmatic, simple, easy to learn approach for a person with new to intermediate skill levels. People with Mastery can usually achieve any given goal in a number of ways, that is part of having Mastery in the first place.

 

Just my OPINION,

 

Kevin

that was really well worded...and kindly spoken kev...thank you

[john marcus]

i think this book may have been about the first book on sharpening.............it came out a long time ago and was for quite a while the only reference i was aware of.

 

i think it pre dated the japanese waterstone popularity in the usa by quite a bit.

 

taken it that context it was a great book...... taken today day with great waterstones and many books and dvd's it has lost its shine imho.