Guest Tai Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I've been through the gas pocket thing a few times. Once on some wootz, I refinished it about 6 times. Everytime I'd etch it, I'd hit new gas pockets. Then I found out that it all has gas pockets anyway. [dunno] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Cejunior Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I like that! Make it look effortless. Effortless effort, working without working. Going with the "flow". Finishing without finishing. Natural! Never let them see you sweat.  [notworthy] Good morning on my end. If I may, it shouldn't make it look effortless  It should be effortless. It is very much like wabi sabi explained by Jim. You don't go searching for it. It is part of a level to which one ascends. The calligrapher, for instance, holds the brush in the egg style (his fingers position holding the brush could also take an egg within) and the entire hand and forearm stays parallel to the washi (rice paper). The mind composes the character, then releases it. The hand-forearm takes comand and whithout hesitation, with the right pressure the brush seems to move by itself and it finishes its task. You look at the character and it is full of energy, harmonious flow. :: Antonio BLADESIGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I stand corrected. Â [notworthy] That one wasn't effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Cejunior Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 But the teasing was Seriously, its a beauty. Antonio BLADESIGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Rose Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 It should be effortless. It is very much like wabi sabi explained by Jim. Definitely a different viewpoint than the Occidental "artists" oft time sense of agony and ecstasy.... Chuck Burrows Wild Rose Trading Co chuck@wrtcleather.com www.wrtcleather.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Most of the time it is effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTBone Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Although I've never worked w/ iron (yet), I've done jewlery work (brass, nickle, silver, etc), and for me, a piece will produce the "aura" you spoke of once you've put your heart and sole into it. Once you've spent the time to make it as perfect as *you* want it to be, you'll see it's glow. Just my 2 cents, for what they're worth. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 http://howstuffworks.lycoszone.com/sword-making4.htm Go to the site and scroll down to the wak... A ballance between the natural and contrived. [notworthy] In Love, Life and Laughter, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Here's a nice compliment I was given about my blades." "Whatever shape your blades take they have a simple elegance about them, and they always appear as though they just spontaneously came into existence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Clark Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Indeed all these things I strive toward, whilst knowing them to be unreachable for mere mortals such as I. Only the first maker can produce perfection, though I would that all that hand wrought is not perfect either, though much of it is. Whether or not that imperfection was there in the very beginning or introduced by some corrupting influence of another who's hand interfered with the first I know not. I only know that for me it is an unattainable goal. I wish for them to look as though they came from the hand that made me, and hope that they do, and yet know full well that they cannot be such for I am imperfect and thus incapable of perfection. Grace, beauty, function, and something primal that speaks to others and brings joy into other people's lives, that is the immortality that I seek. That the work lives beyond me, and is valued not for what it represents in terms of dollars, but is kept and preserved as a record of the joy of the work it's self, for it's own sake, as an enrichment of this existence, while providing for the needs of my family at the same time. And yet they are simple pieces of steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Vanspeybroeck Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Grace, beauty, function, and something primal that speaks to others and brings joy into other people's lives, that is the immortality that I seek. That the work lives beyond me, and is valued not for what it represents in terms of dollars, but is kept and preserved as a record of the joy of the work it's self, for it's own sake, as an enrichment of this existence, while providing for the needs of my family at the same time. I think the feelings and mental/spiritual state of the craftsman should show through the object that is created. I think that if the artist/craftsman suceeds in creating an object that exudes these things it is then interpeted as shibumi, wabi, etc. I think humans can feel (sense) the intent and that some of the craftsman is "left behind" in the creation of an object that is intensly personal in design and execution. Some people are drawn to knives and just can't keep themselves from handling and looking....it's the same with netsuke and other kinds of practical objects that have become "art" throught the ages. You can take a design and have it made by a machine and people can feel/see the difference even if they can't explain it. It is why hand crafted goods still exist here in the 21st century when just about everything can be made better and faster by a machine or a computer. Hand crafted items show the nature of their creator. So, I think it is the inner beauty and intent, the soul of the object, that are more important than technical perfection or the illusion of flawlessness. IMO. Brian "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein "The innovator is not an opponent of the old. He is a proponent of the new." - Lyle E. Schaller http://home.mchsi.com/~hermits/BrianRVanSp..._Edged_Art.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Howard, the One who created you, creates knives through you,... because you are willing. What you have is better and beyond perfection. It all comes from the same source. "Perfection is boring!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Jimmy Fikes once told a collector, "If you want perfection then you should collect rocket parts." and yet, we all strive for it. I think the difference is in how you define perfection. For machinists, it is fit and finish, bladesmiths seem to be striving for something ineffable. It comes from being attuned to the fire and steel. The process of forging involves the maker in a much more direct way and it allows us to dive beneath the conceptual or the word used earlier, contrived. PS. I am on vacation in Montana this week and I am pleased to find the dialog is so active and refreshing. Thanks. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Have a nice vacation Don! Montana is some beautiful country. I used to go trout fishing there when I was a kid. I'm on vacation too,... in my back yard making a knife. Â ??? There is a wild school of goldfish in my pond this year. I had some friends who wanted some, but I couldn't catch them with the net I had. So, I got this teeny tiny barbless hook,... and made a miniture fishing pole. I baited it with little dough balls and caught them out no problem. They actually put up a pretty good fight. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kelso Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Montana is wonderful. We used to spend parts of summers near Seeley Lake north of Missoula. Say hi to the Bobcats and bears. This thread is very interesting. We all seem to be saying more or less the same thing, but in different ways. To me, the fit and finish is important, sometimes demanding as near perfection as I can muster, but the real deal is the feeling that is infused in the work, through me from The Source. (hopefully, anyway). My website and INSTAGRAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I can do perfection,... just don't care for it much. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Arthur Loose Posted November 16, 2003 Author Share Posted November 16, 2003 That the work lives beyond me, and is valued not for what it represents in terms of dollars, but is kept and preserved as a record of the joy of the work it's self, for it's own sake, as an enrichment of this existence, while providing for the needs of my family at the same time. That's a nice quote, Howard. I like to think that the things I make will outlive me and one day speak to someone just as the metalwork from the last millenium speaks to me now. I also really respect the collectors I've met for whom the aftermarket value is not the primary concern. Jimmy Fikes once told a collector, "If you want perfection then you should collect rocket parts." I've seen people looking at knives with loupes & calipers... I always find that odd. If you can't see it with the naked eye it really shouldn't be an issue... did someone make a comparison with knives & drawing the whole picture and not going part by part? Looking at a knife with a loupe always seems like judging a painting with a magnifying glass... it misses the whole gesture. Yes, the fit *should* be that tight, but that's not the point... There was an article in one of the knife magazines once that detailed "things to look for," in a handmade knife. It sort of begged for a machine shop and I thought some of the details were really subjective... but I'll stop now because I think I'm wandering into that whole art / craft thing... It's a funny thing to shoot for perfection and end up appreciating the shortcomings. jloose.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 The problem with perfection is, it leaves no room for surprises... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Where is the beauty? Is it inside or outside? Are the sunset and the rainbow outside or inside? The inside is out and the outside in. A kind woman, the trust in a friend's eyes, and a rushing river are beautiful,... and are inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 We see the beauty first, from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Palm Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Some day I would like to meet Jimmy Fikes! too cool! That's about the way I feel, Perfection? HA!! No one can achieve perfection, I bet even the Rocket boys wish they had better steel! perfect? nope. I'm so far from even starting on a path of perfection, and that's ok Nothing matters more than family, I hope my son's son's son will live free, Old and healthy. I don't care about the knives out living me. It's all about now, not tomorrow. Can you impart anything into the knife that means more than sharing that glance, smile, or laugh with my son? nope not for me. Perfection.... how about beautiful? naaaaah... I don't think there can be a word for it. If there is a word for it than its idea would be lost. Sometimes, a knife just looks right, its far from perfect if you sit down and described it you would be only thinking 3 dimensionally and that wouldn't work. It has something to do with "balanced emotion", and that comes from the maker. Like empty space. You can't want it, you can't summon it. It's more like eliminating things in its creation without choice. hmmmm maybe "Pure" is one of the words that surround it. just rambling.... HEY DON!!! I hope you are taking PHOTOS!! to share when you get back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joss Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 PS. I am on vacation in Montana this week and I am pleased to find the dialog is so active and refreshing. Thanks. Montana is great! I hope you'll get a chance to check the parks! Tell us if you're going through Seattle on the way back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haden Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I know what your saying... The bueaty of something natural... a deer born with a black stripe or a misshapen tree...like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Like a partner with webbed feet... An attractive woman who turns out to be a man... A homely person with a rotten personality... Well, maybe even internal beauty can be subjectified by our own ego filters. So maybe true beauty is and has always been around us and it's our ego filters that remove us from it. I think that’s what a perfect blade is to me. An ego less, "perfect", expression; and left at that. Every person who has posted one of their works on this site has shown a piece of them selves whether or not they were aware of it at the time. Each piece posted has evoked an emotional response from me and has helped me to understand what I like in a blade as an individual. When I begin my own forge, I'll be able to take these experiences and apply it to my own work. That's a little perfect to me In Love, Life and Laughter, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tai Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 That's right, just lose the ego, and the true self will be free to express It's Self. Heed to the inner "Master" and learn inner beauty! [notworthy] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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