Jump to content

Update on Daniel Gentile


Dan Walters
 Share

Recommended Posts

As many of you know, I commissioned Daniel Gentile to make me a fighter and small neck knive in February 2007. I also enlisted him to complete a damascus khukuri, and furnished him with the unfinished khukuri plus a finished one to be used as a model. The damascus khukuri was completed by Daniel in April 2008, and was featured on severl posts here on Bladesmith's Forum.

 

Mr. Gentile has not made good on the fighter and neck knife, which were paid for in full in advance in February 2007. He still possesses the model khukuri sent him. Since May, 2008, Daniel Gentile has once again not responded to my e-mails, and as months are rolling by again, I am concerned and frustrated, being that he has about $2,000 U.S. of mine in money and goods. I must add that when my order was placed, Daniel told me they would be completed in about 45 days, being that he had no waiting list. :unsure: I understand that Daniel might be having problems, but he is not demonstrating any fairness or willingness to make good on his word. The addage Caveat Emptor certainly applies.

 

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed. He did offer a few knives after we last communicated months ago, so he might still be in business... :rolleyes:

 

Thanks!

 

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Public airing of your grievance on the internet is not a good way to sort it out. I can understand being frustrated, even angry, but raking him over the coals in public does no one any good.

 

Until you have tried to make a living at piece work with only your own hands and resources, it is very difficult to appreciate the complexities of it.

 

My customers have had to wait three years at times, and oocassionally, even longer. When unexpected difficulties arise, sometimes life can be very complicated for the self employed artist/craftsman.

 

How to proceed ? Be patient. And try for understanding, or at least a slightly more charitable attitude. I know the man to be of good character, and he is not out to screw you out of our money or product, I can assure you. Take a deep breath, relax, and if you are so inclined, a prayer for him to find his way to get your work done might not hurt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You tell it Howard, I agree that this isn't the forum to air dirty laundry!!! It only serves to promote hard feelings and if Daniel might read this posting, might just decided that there might be some other projects that are now much more important to get to.

 

Dan, I can understand your fustration but you might try writing a letter (must have an address if you mailed him an example) or give him a call. Might just find out that all the smoke came out of his computer and didn't see it as a priority to replace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You tell it Howard, I agree that this isn't the forum to air dirty laundry!!! It only serves to promote hard feelings and if Daniel might read this posting, might just decided that there might be some other projects that are now much more important to get to.

 

Dan, I can understand your fustration but you might try writing a letter (must have an address if you mailed him an example) or give him a call. Might just find out that all the smoke came out of his computer and didn't see it as a priority to replace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You tell it Howard, I agree that this isn't the forum to air dirty laundry!!! It only serves to promote hard feelings and if Daniel might read this posting, might just decided that there might be some other projects that are now much more important to get to.

 

Dan, I can understand your fustration but you might try writing a letter (must have an address if you mailed him an example) or give him a call. Might just find out that all the smoke came out of his computer and didn't see it as a priority to replace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im on Dan W's side here.This is not the first time Dan has had problems.He has tried contacting the maker for months without response.While it is true life throws crap in the way, how is ignoring your customers acceptable?Yes the maker had problems with the city and other issues last time but he posted that all was back on track and that Dan W would be recieving his goods.Unless you are in the hospital and otherwise unable to handle e-mails,phone calls,or letters you have an obligation to converse with your clients,particularly if you've taken their money.Simply ignoring customers is no way OK! As to posting his gripes here on the forums,how else is he to inform others of a makers problems.I feel Dan W has an obligation to inform other prospective buyers of how they can expect to be treated.Also this was the only way to get the makers attention last time.No one likes their name smeared on public forums,however if you dont want to be smeared,dont treat customers with such disregard.An e-mail,phone call,or letter only takes but a brief moment,theres simply no excuse other than a physical disabilty that forbids such a thing,and in that case you should get a friend or family member to answer your e-mails,etc, and inform them of your inability to fulfill your obligation.

N'T McAhron Sqwaukin Vulture Verrinder

"to create is to make art"

TREMBLING EARTH KNIFE WORKS (website coming soon)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on guys, as Howard pointed out this really isn't the place either for greivances or for taking sides as this could get drawn out and ugly real quick. Don has provided us all a wonderful place pretty here much free of these kinds of things, let's not disrespect him or his site by letting this get out of hand. Right or wrong, Dan has aired his problem, let it go at that please.

Guy Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say that to get a feeling as to what Dan W. is going through, do a search on his posts. Yes it is quite public, but as Daniel G. is listed as a moderator of these forums, it is understandable that Dan would reach out here when all other avenues of communication fails. I would only say to Dan W. , use them (the forums) but dont abuse them,,,

 

jm

Blade

The blade, elegant
Slicing through the sweet, warm breeze
with a precise hit.


Sam Wands (10 years old)





Gold for the merchant, silver for the maid;
Copper for the craftsman, cunning at their trade.
Good! Laughed the baron, sitting in his hall;
But steel---cold steel---shall be master of them all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what Private Messages and Telephones are for. If you don't have Daniel's phone number, and all electronic forms of communication are hitting brick walls, talk to Don about it in private. As a mod, I'm sure Don has his contact information and can get a message through, without mucking up the rest of the place.

The Tidewater Forge

Christopher Price, Bladesmith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This Spring I fabricated a L6 Tomahawk for a customer (who by the way is in law enforcement)and sent it to him with no deposit from him in advance for the work.

 

That was this Spring '08. That customer acknowledged that he received it and commented how nice it looked. This is the L6 tomahawk that I posted on this Forum.

 

I have never heard from this customer since he received this tomahawk and I know the Forums that he frequents. I have (regretfully) been on the border of being obnoxious on this Forum and I know that. I try to refrain.

 

We all feel strongly about our passion of blades. I am a Boilermaker and attend our meetings. One time at a meeting I remarked to one of my brothers about how hard-headed we are and he said,"It's hard to come to an agreement when 250 guys think that they are all right."

 

We are all alpha types and it's hard to sit back and not opine.

 

I could get on the Forums this guy frequents and I could say something; but he would probably dig in and not pay me anyway.

 

Unless your at the level Howard Clark has reached (I have been to his shop and seen him at work) as a novice bladesmith your better off to just give your client the blade and accept payment by virtue of their honesty. It's like loaning relatives money; just give it to them and there will be no hurt feelings when you're not repaid. If you are repaid great!

 

We all know what it takes to make a blade and the work that it entails so we realize its true worth. Dollar/hour rate my tomahawks should cost about $800.00 for me to make a decent profit. Not to many people will pay that.

 

So the moral of my story (for me personally):

 

If a client is going to pay you or not; they will or won't.

 

Trying to sell tomahawks and knives sucks the fun out of the craft for me.

 

I am not a business man (with respect to the knife business)

 

Dan, I hope you get your knives. I just wanted to give you the other side of it.

 

 

As always

Respectfully,

 

RK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I appreciate the input... It's certainly not my intention to cause problems here.

 

Before posting again regarding Mr. Gentile, I most definitely endeavored to communicate with him many times, utilizing all possible means (I have all his contact information numbers and e-mails), and PM's were also sent to individuals in the Bladesmith's Forum for assistance, including to Mr. Fogg.

 

At the time when Daniel Gentile showcased the finished damascus khukuri on the forum, he did say that he would soon be completing the other projects, and getting them to me. Since then 5 months have rolled by, and Mr. Gentile has again disappeared. I've been waiting for one year and seven months for items that I was told would be done in 45 days. I am patient as my posts will show, but don't feel I should be completely ignored, and wait for another Xmas or summer vacation to pass.

 

Many forums have an area where both buyers and sellers are rated so that forumites can decide whether or not to do business with them. Bladesmith's Forum did not have this feature, and I nevertheless assumed that I could entrust my money and valuable "model khukuri" to Mr. Gentile being that he was a moderator here, and was well respected by the members.

Edited by Dan Walters
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And indeed I think in the end you will find that the trust has not been given in error.

 

I do not know what Daniel's circumstances are.

 

I do know that at times in the past, I have had a few severe problems in the shop, or in life which caused me to more or less shut down. Work, emotionally, and in every other way. To the point of not answering the phone at all, and not talking to anyone that was not my family. Much less being able to get anything done. The causes have been various, but the results are similar.

 

For better or worse, sometimes the package that comes with an artist's temperament is not all wonderfulness (perhaps a bit of an understatement, really). :rolleyes:

 

I do not want to seem like I am making excuses for his lack of communication. I do offer my own experience with it (being in-communicative) as a point of view that may be different than the one you started with.

 

I understand it is how you feel, and that it is truth that things are over-due. I just don't like to see my friends discussed in public in such a negative way. I have been in those shoes, more than once. They are damned uncomfortable shoes to wear, from the inside, as well as from the long suffering customer's point of view.

 

It may not help to hear this, but please be patient. I am sure you will get your goods at some point, and your trust, whilst severely tested, will not have been in vain. Hard as it may be to do, keeping the faith may be the best course for the moment. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your post, Howard.

 

"It may not help to hear this, but please be patient. I am sure you will get your goods at some point, and your trust, whilst severely tested, will not have been in vain. Hard as it may be to do, keeping the faith may be the best course for the moment".

 

Your advice probably points to the best acion to take, so I'll demonstrae even more patience...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"It may not help to hear this, but please be patient. I am sure you will get your goods at some point, and your trust, whilst severely tested, will not have been in vain. Hard as it may be to do, keeping the faith may be the best course for the moment".

 

Your advice probably points to the best acion to take, so I'll demonstrae even more patience...

 

Well said both of you.

 

I've been on both sides of this issue, waiting for something to ship, and having things pile up on me, niether of which are fun places to be.

 

"When you are the anvil bear, when you are the hammer strike"

-forgot who said it

 

Good luck to the both of you.

Ben Potter Bladesmith

 

 

It's not that I would trade my lot

Or any other man's,

Nor that I will be ashamed

Of my work torn hands-

 

For I have chosen the path I tread

Knowing it would be steep,

And I will take the joys thereof

And the consequences reap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did receive a few messages, advising me to keep Daniel Gentile accountable for his obligations. They felt it wise not to just forget everything and "hope for the best". Perhaps periodically (every few months) a bump on this thread would be in order. Obviously once Daniel makes good on his word, I would let everyone know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did receive a few messages, advising me to keep Daniel Gentile accountable for his obligations. They felt it wise not to just forget everything and "hope for the best". Perhaps periodically (every few months) a bump on this thread would be in order. Obviously once Daniel makes good on his word, I would let everyone know.

 

 

I for one think that, if done reasonably, this is probably a very honorable path for you.

 

I sincerely believe that all will be well in the end

President - Georgia Knifemakers Guild

ABS Journeyman Smith

 

"Wisdom and experience are built of bricks made from the mud of failure." - Mike Blue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Daniel Gentile's profile shows that he visited Bladesmith's Forum on the 20th of February... Since April, 2008, he's still not contacted me, and I definitely have his current and correct contact information. He's still in my debt for about $2,000, which represents a khukuri of mine he's holding and money paid in advance over two years ago for two commissioned knives. His website has been upgraded once again, and he's listed commercial offerings, so in some way, he's still in business...

 

I was blasted by some members here when I first exposed Mr. Gentile's failure to keep his word 1 1/2 years ago. I've been most patient, but still there's no end in sight. Caveat Emptor to anyone contemplating doing business with this knifemaker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daniel Gentile's profile shows that he visited Bladesmith's Forum on the 20th of February... Since April, 2008, he's still not contacted me, and I definitely have his current and correct contact information. He's still in my debt for about $2,000, which represents a khukuri of mine he's holding and money paid in advance over two years ago for two commissioned knives. His website has been upgraded once again, and he's listed commercial offerings, so in some way, he's still in business...

 

I was blasted by some members here when I first exposed Mr. Gentile's failure to keep his word 1 1/2 years ago. I've been most patient, but still there's no end in sight. Caveat Emptor to anyone contemplating doing business with this knifemaker.

 

 

Dan,

I have to agree with you at this point. Not even a message to explain his circumstances. That's just bad business, and rude. Yes artists are temperamental, and sometimes life rears it ugly head and gets in the way of what we do, but to drop you a line explaining the situation after 2 years of waiting is not to much to ask. The only thing I can think of is that he has had problems and at this point is to embarrassed to talk to you about it.

Daniel, if you read this, please contact Dan, I'm sure he will be understanding of your situation as long as he knows your trying. I'm sure you are an honorable person, and just have had some event in your life get in the way of your work. It happens to all of us. So please contact him privately, no need to let everyone know whats going on, but I'm sure Dan could use some reassurance.

 

Tony G ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is more to this story than what has been written here. Daniel Gentile is not the kind of man who seeks sympathy or compassion outside of his personal friends thus few if any other members of the Bladesmiths Forum are aware of his current circumstance. Most of the writing here is accusatory as if Daniel is some kind of con artist but this only revolves around one single complainant, that being Mr. Walters. To date, not one other customer has come forward to complain about Daniel Gentile and how he takes care of his business.

 

 

Mr. Walters, Certainly there is reason for you to complain that your business has not been completed. I disagree with the way you have handled the situation and I have tried to refrain from negative comments. You are giving a warning about doing business with Daniel Gentile but the warning should also apply to you as you are a most difficult costumer if not completely impossible to deal with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I would think that would be a good reason for Daniel to come and explain a bit. So we can hear his side as well.

If Dan has been waiting all that time with no contact, then that's not good.

It's not hard to drop an email now and then.

Beau Erwin

www.ErwinKnives.com

Custom knives

Bcarta Composites

Stabilized Woods

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are a most difficult costumer if not completely impossible to deal with

 

Mr. Walters being the most difficult customer????

wow, you must only sell to angels my friend.

:)

 

i do not see any claim to Mr Gentile being a con artist.

i see requests for contact and many attempts to find out information of a ongoing order.

lets not jump the gun and raise the blood pressures.

 

it doesnt matter about the circumstance behind the silence,

its not asking for sympathy to keep a customer informed about delays to their order.

its just polite business practice.

 

last time Mr Gentile said:

The sepecial circumstances didn't make it easy to finish the Khukri

 

and left it at that.

thats all thats needed to be said.

we dont need details and its nothing of our business.

a private email between maker and customer or a PM even.... its all thats needed.

"im running late with your order" in a pm allows at least some peace of mind.

total silence and avoidance leads to panic and confusion and hurt judgement.

 

afterall, if i order a shipment of supplies and they dont arrive and i dont hear anything again, im for sure going to complain about it because in my mind i would have been wronged.

 

im pretty sure i was one of the original members who asked for patience... and i believe after such a time, patience has been used.

i do not know Mr Gentile, but im sure he is a great guy and i know that he makes some fine things.

just as i know that there is something simple behind all of this thats lead to this situation ... and it all can be sorted out with a simple explanation between those involved.

 

no matter our best intentions, nobody is perfect and sometimes things can lead to disarray.

if we all keep our accusations to a minimum and try to hope for the best outcome.. then hopefully things can still stay a little sane and happy about the place.

deeDWF4.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dee, You have very limited information regarding this matter. Daniel is not over here defending himself which would put his costumer in a very bad light because he has to much respect for the forum to use it as a shout box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...