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Question about belts for grinder!


Donald Babcock

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I am having some issues with finding the right type of belts for my Grizzly 2X72 grinder. I've had it for about a year now. The problem that I am having is that the belts don't seem to want to grind the steel very well. I am using 1095 from Admiral Steel. The steel is soft and I can file it pretty well with almost no pressure on the file, but when I try to grind it takes a really long time to rough grind a blank even with a 60 grit belt. Every time I've seen people grind a blank out it takes the 10-15 minutes (with them talking quite a bit showing the steps), and it takes me around 4 hours unless I pull out the angle grinder. I want to get away from using the angle grinder as it hogs the metal to fast and gets it very hot in just seconds, which I think is causing some of my problems with areas of large grain size in the steel after heat treat.

 

So here is the question for all you grinders out there. What are you using for belts on your grinders? Sources and grit suggestion are welcome

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I use mostly Klingspor and 3M aluminum oxide belts. Do most of my ordering from http://www.jantzsupply.com because they're so close (I get everything next day but pay ground). For stock removal projects, I start out with a 36 grit belt to rough out the shape and cut in the bevels. Then I go to 60, 120, 220 then heat treat. After the heat treat, I go back to 120 to knock of the scale and work back up the finish I want for the given piece.

 

On forged blades, I start at 60 grit and continue the same process.

 

When grinding, you'll remove more metal faster if you turn an edge into the belt. For example, if you're cutting in bevels, turn the blade into the grinder at 45-60 degrees and make the first couple of passes to get close to the edge thickness you want. Then with each subsequent pass, hold that edge just barely off the belt so that the blade is making contact further and further from the edge with each pass until you have the grind line pretty close to where you want it. Fine tune everything with finer belts. There will be a lot of blemished that you can't see with the courser belts.

 

Hope this helps.

JV

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Try www.popsknifesupplies.com James will helpyou out for what your need. The Cuitron yellow belts work the best. I have ground up to 28 D2 knife blades on one belt. Best time to callis 5 to 8 PM HE'S IN gEORGIA.

Edited by me miller
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To start off I always like Norton ceramic belts, either 'hoggers' or 'blaze', in 36 and 50 gr. I wanted to add that even with belt grinding, the steel gets very hot, at least for me it does. Maybe when you're rough grinding, keep control of your movement, but try leaning into it a bunch more. I'd then consider following along with some of the good advise about thermal cycling on this forum if you're worried about grain size.

 

Good luck with the grinding, Craig

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Something I learned recently from Fuad Accawi, is when your belt is getting dull, run an old AO grinding stone chunk across it real quick and it'll knock the dull grit tips off revealing some new fractures, so it'll pretty much sharpen it up some.

Beau Erwin

www.ErwinKnives.com

Custom knives

Bcarta Composites

Stabilized Woods

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I get my belts from Tru-grit . They have a super huge selection of belts in just about any size you want, and a huge selection of 2x72. I have used Hermes, Klingspore, Norton, and 3M. They are all pretty good. The Hermes are a bit cheaper, and dont seem to hold up quite as well, the backing can wear through at the splice (if you are using something stationary like a platen) and belts can break pre-maturley, but that only seems to be a problem if you are really putting the friction between the belt and platen. I have been running AO belts for the sake of cost, and they seem to do pretty good, the belt life is more limited than the ceramics or zirconia belts but they still get the job done.

 

My KMG with a 45 grit belt will make steel disappear faster than I can sometimes keep up with, even on low speeds. At high speeds a blade can easily shrink to about half its size in a couple of seconds ;) . It takes me a good bit longer than 15 min to grind out a blade, not because the grinder wont remove material but because I have only had the KMG for a short time now and am still getting used to it, and I am taking my time to make sure things get done right and trying not to destroy my efforts in the process. Maybe after a few more years with the KMG and I will have the speed up, but rather take a long time and do the job right, than rush through things and do a poor job.

 

You shouldn't have to hog down with lots of pressure to remove material from a blade, and it shouldnt take you hours on end to remove a moderate amount of material, if you are, you definatley need some better quality belts. A good belt will stay pretty sharp throughout its life, a good belt is designed so that as the sharp edges of the grit wear down, they heat up a bit and break free, exposing new sharp edges underneath. If the belt is cheap it usually wears and gets glazed over and "smooth" and you wont be able to grind much steel with it at all.

 

I also have one of the belt cleaner sticks (big rubber block type thing like a big eraser) for the finer grit belts, I find that they sometimes will clog up a bit with some of the fine powdered steel and oxides, and a quick pass with the belt cleaner and they cut a bit better. It doesnt do a whole lot for the more agressive belts since they dont clog as bad, and its not as crucial for steel, but is great for anything you do with wood or softer materials that like to get into the belt. It really helps increase belt life.

Graham Fredeen

ABS Apprentice

Professional Knifemakers Association

~Fredeen Blades~

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All I can add is that if you use the orange Norton hoggers, you DO have to use a fair amount of pressure or they'll dull quickly. Counterintuitive, but true. Well, I can also add that the trizact belts in the lower grits don't like water, nor do many of the cheaper AO belts.

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Well, not really, since I don't have my grinder set up to run wet, I just noticed that some belts don't like it when I put a wet blade on 'em. However, Tru-Grit has a list of belt properties here. Go down the list and see which ones say "waterproof." I noticed just now that the 3M Trizact Gator belts are listed as "dry use only." :lol: Wish I'd known that before I got one wet last year. The glue is not the least bit water resistant. :(

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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I was at the grinder bench last night looking for a tool and noticed that my boxes for the belts are labeled as Silcone Carbide, so I think I found part of my problem. I ordered these through Grizzly when I got my grinder, and according to what I ordered on the website and the invoice they were supposed to be AO belts, although they were the "cheap" ones.

 

From what I have heard from other people the SC belts are more for very soft metal and wood, not very good for carbon steel. Could explain why even when new they didn't want to do anything with the metal. Plus I don't think they are very forgiving of water, as the low grit belts look like crap after a few uses (I cool the steel every other pass in a bucket of water), but the higher grits still are good (I do my "polishing" with dry belts).

 

I'll be ordering some new belts, hopefully when I get paid on friday (that is if the wife saves me any of my money before she spends it all). I'll keep everyone posted on how the belts work out.

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I also use the Norton Orange belts, I forget if they are called Hoggers or Blaze. Anyway they are ceramic and expensive, but worth every penny.

Its all I use now in the coarse grit belts.

Chris

Chris Williams

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Just ordered some of the Norton "Hogger's" from trugrit.com. Hope to have them by the weekend so I can get some grinding done on some of my projects that I have been working on. Ordered 36, 60, 120, and 200. I've got some higher grit belts already for "polishing" as I don't have a flap wheel. I'll let everyone know how the good belts work out for me. Thanks for all the advise.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The belts came in on thursday, but I didn't get a chance to play with the grinder until friday night. Spent about 30 minutes at the grinder friday night finishing up a blade that I had started with the "junk" belts that I had. These belts are awesome. I got more done in those 30 minutes then I did in two days of working on it. This knife started out as a hollow grind, but got so messed up I had to "fix" it by making it a flat grind. I also ground out two more blades today. A small cable knife prototype for use at work (I am a communications technician) and a small double edge blade. Nothing to fancy to look at, but my grinds are getting a lot better then they were. I'll take some pics of them and post em latter.

 

For anyone looking to get belts I would definetly suggest the Norton "hoggers" and the "blaze" belts. These belts will really eat the metal away fast. I'll be playing around some more in the next few nights. Now I just need to figure out how I am going to heat treat them as it is getting to damp and chilly out at night to be getting the coal forge going outside. And it could be any day now that the snow starts flying in the north-east (I live in Maine).

 

Thanks for all the help. Can't wait to get some pics up of my progress. Maybe I can get away from my "lurker" status and start showing some stuff off in the near future.

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Hi folks

 

At the risk of Hijacking this thread, I have been mulling this question over in my head for some time now and I am now at a point where I really need to build my grinder.

 

The problem is I can't find standard belts around here, and I would like to know if anybody has any experience in glueing or bonding their own belts from standard emory tape? If so, what glue should I use?

 

Regards

Wayne

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate

Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of God

Your playing small doesn’t serve the world.

There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you

We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.

It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone.

And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

 

Nelson Mandela – 1994 Inaugural Speech.

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Hi folks

 

At the risk of Hijacking this thread, I have been mulling this question over in my head for some time now and I am now at a point where I really need to build my grinder.

 

The problem is I can't find standard belts around here, and I would like to know if anybody has any experience in glueing or bonding their own belts from standard emory tape? If so, what glue should I use?

 

Regards

Wayne

 

 

what size belts are you looking for? 2X72 belts can be found from several online sources.

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i've been using the cheap al/oxide belts for a long time.. their cheeper but dull very fast...

 

try to profile the blade on a 6 inch stone wheel grinder... .. and don't worry how hot it gets... just dip it in water when its too hot to hold.... reason i do that, is that i find that profiling the blade on these cheap belts tends to knock the stones off.... so i save the fresh belts for the bevel and the old coarse belts for profiling..

 

if your having a problem with stress in the blade and grain size..... be sure to normalize the blade 3 times before quenching... this will take care of that ... and make sure it has a smaller grain size and even out the steel...

 

 

take care

 

Greg

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Yup, and they will post them to me and then someone in our postal service will decide to take them home.

 

This country is infamous for never recieving your post. They recomend a courier and in this case that will probably result in the freight costing more than the goods. Also, It takes about 10 of our "Rands" to buy one US$. So it works out really expensive, not to mention import duties and the like.

 

It would be easier for me to just make my own. There are some local guys importing belts but they are then paying all of the above and then adding margins on top of that. I will have to contact the local adhesive manufacturers. Maybe someone will be prepared to help. It looks like most of these belts are joined with some kind of thermal adhesive.

 

Regards

Wayne

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate

Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of God

Your playing small doesn’t serve the world.

There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you

We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.

It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone.

And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

 

Nelson Mandela – 1994 Inaugural Speech.

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Yup, and they will post them to me and then someone in our postal service will decide to take them home.

 

This country is infamous for never recieving your post. They recomend a courier and in this case that will probably result in the freight costing more than the goods. Also, It takes about 10 of our "Rands" to buy one US$. So it works out really expensive, not to mention import duties and the like.

 

It would be easier for me to just make my own. There are some local guys importing belts but they are then paying all of the above and then adding margins on top of that. I will have to contact the local adhesive manufacturers. Maybe someone will be prepared to help. It looks like most of these belts are joined with some kind of thermal adhesive.

 

Regards

Wayne

 

Hi Wayne

 

Have you tried getting in touch with the people at herbst knife making Gawie and Thinus Herbst they should know where to get the stuff you need the have a knife making academy in south africa.

 

Daniel S

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No, I haven't heard of them before.

 

I do know of Bertie Rietveld and also Heather and Kevin of Heaven Forge. I know they are using belts like the ones I want. I also know that they go to the States often and have probably set up a supply line from there.

 

I'm just a pennyless beginer! Anyway, I will be in Belfast (South Africa) one of these days and I will pop in at Heaven Forge and see what they say. I was just kinda hoping someone would know how to bond those suckers.

 

Regards

Wayne

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate

Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of God

Your playing small doesn’t serve the world.

There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you

We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.

It’s not just in some of us; it’s in everyone.

And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.

 

Nelson Mandela – 1994 Inaugural Speech.

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