Damascus in a box

[KPeacock]

After looking at some of Ariels work, I'm pretty impressed with the results of the damascus in a box. I'm contemplating attempting something along these lines and I'm wondering if one could use aluminum instead of stainless steel to keep the desired materials from welding to the box. Has anyone tried this, or is this idea fundamentally flawed?

[jake cleland]

yeah, that ain't gonna work - aluminium melts at about 1000 degrees below the welding temp of steel.

[KPeacock]

I was hoping for "sure you can, the aluminum melts and then coats the steel. Works like a charm!"

 

I guess we can;t always get what we are hoping for.

 

Thanks,

[Chuck Richards]

Why not use mild steel for your box? I use it in sheet form or in steel box form.

[Kenon Rain.]

I think the idea is to avoid having to grind off the outside steel..

 

really not that hard though, use some square tubing.. tack it all together and your good

[matt venier]

I've seen people use sheets of stainless in between the steel to be welded and the cannister to keep the cannister from welding to the billet. I haven't done it yet but I'll be trying it soon enough.

 

Matt

[Giuseppe Maresca]

I used few sheets of pressed paper between the billet and the can. It makes a lot of ash around the billet without affecting the weld, but helps to have the cannister unwelded to the billet. I had just a small area on one side, near the end of the billet, welded to the canister, but was a joke to grind a so small area away.

Aluminum melts at 600°C, but in thin foil (like that used in kitchen) it will probably oxidize before, turning in Al2O3, with a very high melting point. It's why we can't melt aluminum foil with the lighter. I don't know if it is difficult to clean after the weld anyway, and I would not try this on a good billet for the first time.

[HSJackson]

You can get that thin Ticronic stainless foil that people use to prevent scale when heat treating stainless blades. Line the inside of your mild steel square tube with a layer of that stuff and it should keep the billet from sticking too bad. Kinda pricey but it wouldn't take much to line a 1" or 1.5" tube. http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info...products_id=950

 

{edit} Well, curiosity got the better of me and I tried a Salaverria style san mai damascus in a box billet last night using the Ticronic foil to line the box. I let the whole thing cool overnight and took the box off the billet this morning. The foil works great and all I had to do was cut along one edge with a thin cutoff wheel and then peel the mild steel casing off with a hammer and scewdriver. The mild steel didn't stick to the foil at all but the foil welded to the high carbon billet pretty well. Fortunately, it's very thin foil so it grinds off quite easily. As for the billet itself, it seems I didn't put enough powdered metal in and there are some voids on the edge that was the top of the box where the powder settled and left a few empty spaces. I think I can grind that one ragged edge off and still have a nice billet though. I ground the ends smooth and it looks like homogneous steel with no sign of a border between the chainsaw and the 1084 core. I have to work the next 5 days so it will be a while before I can try forging a blade. This whole job thing can be mighty inconvenient sometimes.

Edited December 6, 2008 by HSJackson

[KPeacock]

HSJackson,

 

What did you use for powdered metal? is this something you purchased, or did you sweep/magnet up a pile of filings?

[HSJackson]

I ordered some powdered 1084 from Kelly Cupples. Seems to work really well. He also has some high carbon powders with nickel for bright contrast but I haven't tried them. Some of his steel is listed on Darren Ellis' website: http://elliscustomknifeworks.hightemptools.com/steel.html

[KPeacock]

thanks for the link.

[durukan]

Hi everyone,

 

I asked the same question to ariel . and now sending his reply

 

"As for the material of the metal boxes, its regular iron pipe, not stainless (that’d be too expensive with my local prices) that needs about 100C more degrees than the steels on the inside to get melted. Anyway, I don’t take the container to those temperatures, forging temperature gets the steel soft, in a plastic state, but they don’t really melt on the inside. The metal box / cannister get somewhat plastic too, and they go with the hammering / pressing instead of breaking, but as the temperature needed for it to forge is higher (and I also place thin strips of stainless steel inside the capsule so the steels don’t get welded to the inner walls) it stands out properly."

 

ıt was ariels reply.. I did not try it . ı was too busy to make my electrical heat threatment kiln. if you try tell me the results good luck

[KPeacock]

Hi everyone,

 

I asked the same question to ariel . and now sending his reply

 

"As for the material of the metal boxes, its regular iron pipe, not stainless (that’d be too expensive with my local prices) that needs about 100C more degrees than the steels on the inside to get melted. Anyway, I don’t take the container to those temperatures, forging temperature gets the steel soft, in a plastic state, but they don’t really melt on the inside. The metal box / cannister get somewhat plastic too, and they go with the hammering / pressing instead of breaking, but as the temperature needed for it to forge is higher (and I also place thin strips of stainless steel inside the capsule so the steels don’t get welded to the inner walls) it stands out properly."

 

ıt was ariels reply.. I did not try it . ı was too busy to make my electrical heat threatment kiln. if you try tell me the results good luck

 

Next week I'll be heading to Michigan for teh late doe season and to visit family for the holidays. One of my good friends back home installs commercial HVAC units and he has been snagging stainless steel sheets for me. Once I get back I'll likely give it a try. I'm got a mess of roller bearings courtesy of the local Caterpillar maintenance shop. I've just got to order some metal powder.

 

Alternatively, I don;t see why steel filings can't be used. Perhaps I'll just save my filings for use in this project.

[Jziegenbein]

if youre using a file, they should be fine, but any other abrasive, like sandpaper, grinstones, belts, ar buffers, leave ceramic or aluminum oxide residue that screws with the weld.

[HSJackson]

Also your chain or whatever has to be very clean because there's no flux in this method to carry away the bits of grime that are in the links of old worn out chainsaw chains. Any grit/grime stays in the billet and shows up as inclusions, just as you're finishing up the 120 grit grind on the flats. I scrubbed the chain and ran it through an ultrasonic cleaner but there was still apparantly some crud in the links.