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And how do you say hamon?

its been bugging me, cause i don't know

 

Well, that depends on who you ask, I suppose. Generally, following what I know of Japanese linguistics, I pronounce "ha" like a cross between the "ha" in "hat" and in "ha ha ha" and "mon" like the word "moan". It's sort of hard to explain.

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Thank you for the info Mr. Alan! I had seen the term many times, but couldn't for the life of me figure out what it meant.

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Hi guys I just photographed a couple diagrams that give the terms for viking age sword nomenclature, and La Tene period hilt and scabbard terms.

a few terms

La Tene Period - the term for the material culture of 'Celtic' iron age Europe from around 600 BCE/BC until roughly 100 CE/AD

Viking Age - the term for the period in European history, especially Northern European and Scandinavian history, spanning the eighth to eleventh centuries.

 

The Viking sword diagram is from Ian Pierces book "Swords of the Viking Age"

and the La Tene period diagram is from I.M. Stead's book "British Iron Age Swords and Scabbards"

 

I hope that's useful.

0vikingnomenclature.jpg

0latenenomenclature.jpg

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Can we get an exact definition of the foundry terms too? Wootz, bloomers, buttons? Maybe even some pictures of examples? I browsed the forum and think I have a basic meaning. Wikipedia says a Wootz is "A steel characterized by a pattern of bands or sheets of micro carbides within a tempered martensite or pearlite matrix" but some of us don't have a degree in metallurgy. ^_^

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Nother one , what is " spalted " ???

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Spalted is wood that has been colored with mold. It is normally black lines running through the wood.

 

Hogan Baker

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Actually it's fungus and the particular strain dictates the lines (penciling)color. It breaks down the cellulose freeing up the carbs for bacteria to finish off the decay process.

 

I grow mushrooms otherwise I wouldn't give a rats bottom.

Edited by B Finnigan

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Ah , I have some of that . I've got a good sized pile of wood that I gathered up here in Arkansas , while workin for the Cherokee Village street dept . I was removing hangers , and damaged tops from a lot of different trees . Most of this damage happened during the ice storm last winter . I found a lot of interesting grains and shapes . Thanks for the info !

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WIP= Work In Progress.

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&^%$#&*!!!! Used to describe your blade cracking on quench, the spreading of your blood on a blade or a grinding error that is unrepairable.

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there is a great page here http://www.jayfisher.com/knife_anatomy,_parts,_names.htm it gives a rundown of parts and termanology with pictures and a reduclius amount of vocabulary, highly recomended.

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nvm

Edited by ZongTa

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Hi, what is scaling? I keep hearing it to describe metal in the context of forge welding...

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scale is black iron oxide which forms on the surface of your steel at incandescent heats when it is exposed to oxygen. it will prevent steel from welding, cause you to lose material as it flakes off, can be driven deeply into the surface of the steel causing pits, and is indicative of surface decarburisation.

 

there will always be a degree of scaling, because you have to take the steel from the fire into the oxygen rich air, but it can be minimised by using a reducing fire (running a gas forge 'rich' - some un-burt fuel burning when it hits the oxygen outside the forge, showing there's no free oxygen inside, or working in the upper part of a solid fuel fire, out of the air blast) and in the case of welding, you use a flux to lower the melting point of any scale and to coat the surface, preventing oxygen from combining with the steel.

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What is and what are the differences between "annealing" and "normalising" vs heat treating and tempering? If those are even related things, I think they are from what i've gathered reading over the last few days.

 

Also hello. :)

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The short answer is that everything you do to use heat to control the structure of steel is heat treating.

 

Annealing is bringing the steel to its softest possible state, usually by bringing it to the temperature at which the crystalline phase changes (we use the term "critical temperature"), generally speaking around 1425 degrees F/ 774 degrees C for simple steels, then cooling it as slowly as possible either in the forge, in a bucket of vermiculite or lime, or wrapped in ceramic fiber. This will give you the softest possible form for easy filing, but you have to rearrange the crystalline structure to harden it later via holding at the phase change temperature for a while. How long depends on the alloy. For most simple steels you will not need to anneal, normalization is sufficient to soften it enough to work with hand tools.

 

Normalizing is similar, except you allow the steel to cool in still air from critical. This softens the steel somewhat, but more importantly it allows the stresses from forging and grinding to be "normalized" or made even throughout the piece of steel. It is important for resetting the crystalline structure and to prevent warping during the quench.

 

Hardening is using a quench medium, usually warm oil, to "freeze" the structure from critical. This will be as hard as the steel can get, but it will also be brittle and full of stresses, especially if you are using pattern-welded or "damascus" steel made by welding up two or more different alloys. Some of the more complicated alloys will harden in air, or between aluminum blocks, and some of the simplest will harden best in warm water. Warm oil is safest for most simple alloys.

 

Tempering is the last step after hardening. It is simply slowly heating the steel to a much lower temperature than the hardening heat, often from 350 to 450 degrees F/ 177 to 232 degrees C. What it does is change the crystalline microstructure from its most stessed form to a less-stressed form that remains hard enough to do the job at hand. You lose some hardness, but you gain a huge amount of toughness.

 

That is the basic definition of the four main terms we use.

 

It gets really complicated really fast when you start thinking about the optimum for any given alloy. Some alloys, mostly stainless and odd tool steels, cannot be annealed in the typical home shop.

 

The simplest alloys are just iron and carbon, with carbon ranging from 0.4% (the lowest that can harden appreciably) to 1.2% or thereabouts. Add some manganese and hardenability is increased substantially. Add some chromium, vanadium, or tungsten (among many other things) and the hardness and toughness attainable increase substantially.

 

Look around the site, especially in the metallurgy subforum, for in-depth discussions of all of these things.

 

Oh, and welcome aboard! :) Relax and don't overthink things, it takes some time to wrap your head around the concepts. Start with a simple alloy and stick with it until you can control the heat treatment process for it, then move on to others that may work better for you.

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I got one I have had the damnest time wraping my head around...

I guess I need it explained like I am an 8 year old...

 

Red short

 

Thank you,

Gabriel

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Red short or cold short, aka $%#%&%@% is when the steel you're forging tends to crack or crumble when forged at a red heat or lower. It is common with high alloy steels and very high carbon steels, particularly air-hardening alloys, where the carbides cluster around grain boundaries and form places for cracks to propagate. Impurities like sulfur and phosphorus can make this worse, especially in wrought iron. A good reason to stop hammering when you lose a bright orange color, regardless.

 

Not to be confused with hot short, which is also common in higher alloy steels where the carbide forming elements tend to lose their grip on the grain boundaries above a yellow heat, causing the nice hot steel you're hammering to suddenly turn into what resembles cottage cheese. Tungsten and excess molybdenum are good for this one, which is why HSS tool steels like M2 are a pain to forge. Try forging on a drill bit to see this effect in action. O-1 will also do this if forged too hot.

 

Some of the specialty tool steels like the aforementioned M2 high speed steel have the worst of both worlds in that they are both hot AND cold short, only forgeable in a very narrow range of a few hundred degrees F between around 1650 to 1800 degrees F.

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Hey Alan,

Thank you...

I think I got it now... I got a butt-load of O-1, and now L-6. Gonna try pushing the boundries :D

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It came from iron in the hat, a tradition amongst blacksmithing groups where everyone brings an item to the meeting and people draw names or tickets from a hat to see who gets what. It's basically just swapping an item you made for a similar item within a group, at least the way we use the term here.

 

Iron(or knife) in the hat can also refer to a type of raffle some groups use as fundraising tools, but here it's a means of trading blades in a non-linear swap.

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