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Hi All.

 

Heads up :lol:

 

This madness continues...

 

I think you guys all ready seen my work "may have had" obsession characteristic all over ;)

 

But sens knowbody has send me in mental institution...I continue this journey to make stronger patter

in wootz of mine...LOL :lol:

 

Planing to run two ingots tomorrow and try make two similar runs but differens is C in steel + alloys

 

First is charge whit cast that has carbon 3,2-3,5 % Si 2,1% and Mn 0,7%

Pure iron will cut it down to 1,8% C ...Si ~ 0,8 -1,0 %and Mn 0,4%

 

This cast I same that used in that succes patter...so I try to repeat that.

Also I will roast ingot at +1000 about 60 min..like I did.

 

Second charge will be in same C cont 1,8% but I use graphite and alloys Mo,V,Mn,Si about same amounts as previous runs

(Si 0,055 Mn 0,022 Cr 0,281 Mo 0,072 V 0,055)

+ roast

 

I trying to see is differens in roast...and also will it work if graphite is used...it sould not make differens.

 

Dont get my wrong...I do like patter that I had....but if you think it like this...You produce nice, watery,curly,wood grain,damascene patter...and next time its about 20 % of it...it will mess you mind.

IF I some day will crack this enigma of mine...I will have to torment my self whit ancient method of wootz....but thats different story.

 

Its guite intersting to see how time has come its cycle...we are trying to produce something ancient...but at that time they were top of they

steel ...Would be nice to know what future bladesmiths / smelters try to produce in year 2752.....maby some 15N20 Or W1 ;)

 

But pics tomorrow.

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi.

 

 

Just from furnace....

 

Ok..first was cast one and soon after graphite one.

First tooked 50 min to melt...whit cast it is faster!

Second 40 min ...preheating will cut time too.

 

Slow to solid...to get those bigger dendrites.

 

It was a good day.

 

DSCN7523.jpg

 

DSCN7526.jpg

 

DSCN7530.jpg

 

These 3 are cast /iron run

 

DSCN7536.jpg

 

DSCN7538.jpg

 

DSCN7542.jpg

 

These are graphite run

 

DSCN7543.jpg

 

Left graphite and right cast....Funny how crucibles colour is different...maby preheated furnace roasted second charge hard way?

 

But now dendrites are bigger...dos it effect patter...will see later this week...or not?

 

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi.

 

Some pics, of todays work.

 

 

 

DSCN7547.jpg

 

DSCN7546.jpg

 

Raw ingot...dendrites

 

 

DSCN7559.jpg

 

DSCN7569.jpg

 

Den.jpg

 

Roasting, decarb shell, matrix after roast.

 

DSCN7583.jpg

 

DSCN7588.jpg

 

Matrix after 10 forging cycles+ some decarb/matrix

 

 

Edit:

This ingot is graphite run

 

 

Niko

Edited by Niko Hynninen
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Hi.

 

 

Just from furnace....

 

Ok..first was cast one and soon after graphite one.

First tooked 50 min to melt...whit cast it is faster!

Second 40 min ...preheating will cut time too.

Slow to solid...to get those bigger dendrites.

It was a good day.

Niko

 

 

Niko,

Looks like it is going well, wow. The spacing of the dendrites is very big. The color difference in the crucibles is probably due to some iron oxide in the atmosphere of the darker one. The crucibles appear porous, are the graphite/clay or silicon carbide?

Jan

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I continue this my own speculation what is the parts of raw matrix that eventually produce this damas patter.

I hope if my conclusion is wrong it would be nice to hear the right reason.

 

I made some lines in this pic I hope it will make sens.

 

DSCN7546_red_dents.JPG

 

Between red lines, you see two gray lines and between these is dendtires ( cementite) ???

Douring forging cycles dos this part of matrix chance in that comical illustration?

 

But Im interseted to hear is my pics illustration right or Am I totally wrong?

 

 

Niko

Edited by Niko Hynninen
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Hi Jan

 

Thanks.

 

The crucibles appear porous, are the graphite/clay or silicon carbide?

 

SiC crucibles. New ones for this run.

What aspect makes you think they are porous?I dodnt know anything about crucibles :lol:

 

I was in that believe that these are not porous???!!

But sens I didint get any info how these are made...I cant be sure...just that they are SiC..but now i have to start think...are they realy SiC ??

oohhh :mellow:

 

Niko

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Hi Jan

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

SiC crucibles. New ones for this run.

What aspect makes you think they are porous?I dodnt know anything about crucibles :lol:

 

I was in that believe that these are not porous???!!

But sens I didint get any info how these are made...I cant be sure...just that they are SiC..but now i have to start think...are they realy SiC ??

oohhh :mellow:

 

Niko

 

Niko,

 

Not porous I should have said rough surface. Based on those solid ingots they certainly were not porous.

Jan

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Sweet work Niko, wanna make me some? :P

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Niko,

I certainly wouldn't call it obsessive .

It is the "path of steel" and you are blazing along it in a flaming wootz tired chariot!

 

However obscure and pedantic this road may be I can tell that once you finish this journey the next turning will be down a road even less traveled.

 

if it is an obsession it is an inspirational one !!

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“We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. Yet, it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities but also its own talents as well” Bruce Lee

 

Nothing wrong with obsession; Most people either copy or follow the paths of others, it is only through obsession that we can create new paths. A little obsession is healthy.

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Thanks

Simon and Owen :lol:

 

I think this is one of the best obsession´s that I have...If it is even obsession ;)

It sure is journey in steel...every day it shows differens, tells you what it dos like and dosent..

I have find good path...I think..Today I give ingot more forging cycles...only 20...heat..soak...forge...stop...cool under A1

re heat...soak....forge... + ...+ ..

 

But have to say...so far this could be the best ingots...Why?

It has good C amount ( i think) I havent done any grinding...yet!!

 

Pattern is still raw but if you look at cementite...it looks bit heavyer...like its all ready starting to get fat / to cluster together.

 

At this point I need to grind decarb away..its about 1-2mm

Under that is something like this

 

DSCN7602.jpg

Top

DSCN7591.jpg

Side

DSCN7596.jpg

 

DSCN7600.jpg

 

 

It starts to look guite nice....even lots of work ahead.

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi Niko

 

good work.. i'm having problems to see the pictures.. maybe my brothers computer is giving me problems

 

its nice to see the ingot is co-operating... this is super

 

Greg

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Simon and Owen :lol:

 

I think this is one of the best obsession´s that I have...If it is even obsession ;)

It sure is journey in steel...every day it shows differens, tells you what it dos like and dosent..

I have find good path...I think..Today I give ingot more forging cycles...only 20...heat..soak...forge...stop...cool under A1

re heat...soak....forge... + ...+ ..

 

But have to say...so far this could be the best ingots...Why?

It has good C amount ( i think) I havent done any grinding...yet!!

 

Pattern is still raw but if you look at cementite...it looks bit heavyer...like its all ready starting to get fat / to cluster together.

 

At this point I need to grind decarb away..its about 1-2mm

Under that is something like this

 

DSCN7602.jpg

Top

DSCN7591.jpg

Side

DSCN7596.jpg

 

DSCN7600.jpg

 

 

It starts to look guite nice....even lots of work ahead.

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi

 

Thanks Greg.

 

I have now forged ingot in bar..15mm x 35mm x 330 mm.

 

Carbon in this at least 1,5% ( compared ref piece) but tryed to get it in 1,8% as calculated.

Matrix is guite wild, but Im thinking that patter will not cluster to thick / fat one.

 

I have a theory why patter will not chance even I have run series of different heats ( lows - Hi´s), fast cooling (air) slow cooling ( in forge under the coals + wool after peack heat), different manipulation ( fuller, hammer).

 

So theory of mine.

 

Material that I have now, is too pure. There is no enough third-element that in my mind plays critical role in formation of pattern.

If C is low ( under typical 1,5%C ) but you have enough that third element ( alloy) steel will show damas patter.

 

If steel is "too pure" cementite cluster will not segregate enough, that is results in that fat / thick patter.

 

In this ingot i had some alloys,like Cr guite a lot ( calculated alloys % --> (Si 0,055 Mn 0,022 Cr 0,281 Mo 0,072 V 0,055)

It seams that Cr amout is not enough to segregate clusters in matrix further abart.

This why this patter ( this bar ) is so messy...cluster of cementite are like burst, not like uniform lines.

Heat amount + manipulation is substantial ( I stop counting after 300), but even so patter dosent show any chance.

 

DSCN7607.jpg

 

DSCN7609.jpg

 

I have taken pic in same place of this piece, to show the "try" chance.

 

 

That raw honeycone stucture is turned in to this, It looks guite nice and may have some guite nice slicing features.

 

BUT hunt of patter still continues.....But there might be some differens in that other ingot...I soon start to forge it..so we will see.

 

 

Whit this bar I have work a head...its guite big, so I need to get more heats...Maby it will make some watering more.

Whit hand hammer I think its gointo be some 150 - 200 heats more...I love it ;)

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi Niko

 

that looks good !!! .. now switch to smaller hammers.. and forge out a knife.. maybe with some laddering.. and brush scale off all the time.. also, i like to forge closely to shape... as i get close to finished knife, my heat is very close to non-mag

 

it may help to widen or flatten some of the carbides in shape.. ( or maybe i am dreaming )

 

Greg

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Hi!

 

Tryed some heat cycles agane...Have to ask you all do you see any chance...I hace looked this too long and its starting to chance in my mind

more that in reality :wacko:

 

DSCN7677.jpg

 

I also started that another ingot that I had bit hi hopes....BUT..

 

Im not sure is it oxidize but it shows some nasty crack like surface...??

I has guite hi C..so it may be even graphite...Even I did made diffusion cycle and made first forging at hi temp.

 

DSCN7698.jpg

2 kg ingot after some cycles

 

DSCN7693.jpg

Fast grid,etch

 

DSCN7696.jpg

" flaw"???

 

I did had hi hopes whit this...but it had other plans

But forging continues...and if it will crack open...new ingot ...bit lower C and better "Kill"

 

 

 

BR

 

Niko

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...and one more thing..

 

If Jeff could throw some ideas...If you dont mind I use one of your pic that was in other topic...

 

Its has lots of C...but im interested about those black spots.

Its bit similar that find in this ingot of mine.

 

Jeff pic

 

Jeff_pic_don_foorum.jpg

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi!

 

 

Give ingot some hi temp ( max I think) forging...and wanted to try coubble things...

If its porosity...it might weld close...if its grafitization...maby too late <_<

 

Well it was hot... yellow...hammer and it did stay in one piece.

But after 5 cycles / and some gring between them...it didnt had any differens in this ignot/ semi bar

 

Im thinking it had too much carbon...I use mig welded handle and it dosent wanto say...at some point it just drops off and surface look like cast to me.

Structure of steel is weard..it had dedritic structure...but spark is way too orange...and leaks "secondary sparks"

 

Oxidation... <_< it could be too...sens my "Kill" was not succes..

 

SO I need to make run...and ad bit less cast at this time...

BUT even this was "bad bad ingot" it has give lots af info...agane...steel 1 me 0 thats the score :P

I think thirth element is critical...and it shows ( not good ) in this pic.

 

DSCN7702.jpg

 

End of 40mm x 130 mm bar.. bottom on top

 

I think cementite is all reasy fat and it has formed some curly shapes..like worms in there.

 

It looks ok in pic but in reality surface if like broken car window...full of craks...this could indicate in oxidation???

 

 

Anyways...its a new day a head and more ingots to be made ;)

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi Niko

 

i'm not sure what to say.. the bar does look different... and interesting forsure.. !

 

if the carb was too high... it would become crumbly... so i'm not sure what to think

 

i'd still hammer it out... just cycle bellow the acm and see what happens when it comes out to barstock... like Dmitry said, you never know with these things till the very very end.. ...there maybe some steel to be salvaged..

 

its happened more than once where a 3lb ingot has turned into a knife... so much cracking and splits forced me to grind and gouge and grind tilll it finally started to agree with me...

 

do you think the P maybe high... ..steadite can go mushy at around 950c

 

Greg

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Hi Greg.

 

This is interesting piece...sort :blink:

 

I used same cast that I used in first "good patter"

But I think I over kill the C and when I tryed to shoot it in that 1,8% (1,85 %) ...It may have taken some C from crucible.

There should be low P ...so it could be ok.

 

Its weard..its not grumbly at all...but in side is totally full of micro "cracks"

I was thinkin could it be that roast.. 1h in max +1000 and slow cooling to next day.

 

Oxidation?

 

Thanks Greg

 

BR

 

Niko

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Hi all.

 

Made 3 runs..

 

1 had bit too fast coolign rate...i run out of gas...others had nice dedrites.

 

But I think I did AGANE...over shoot C in nro 2 and those gray dods <_< ...I think its not good??

 

But soon as get all in forge...I show dos there stay in one piece or not??

 

 

 

DSCN7705.jpg

 

DSCN7714.jpg

 

DSCN7715.jpg

 

DSCN7735.jpg

 

DSCN7760.jpg

 

DSCN7765.jpg

 

DSCN7769.jpg

 

DSCN7772.jpg

 

DSCN7774.jpg

1

DSCN7786.jpg

2

DSCN7792.jpg

3

 

....And I hope my posting dosent annoy anybody :unsure: ....I just wanto share.

 

 

BR

 

Niko

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Niko,

 

them ingots look good to me from the outside, the etched pictures have to be judged by the experts. Why do you think, you overshooted the C amount?

How long do you leaf the steel at liquidus?

 

Regards, Cyrus

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Hi Cyrus.

 

:lol:

 

I whent back to home...and calculated the alloys + C... Now If all graphite did get in ..whit that and alloy steel that i used..its about 2,1% C

So it migth be guite hard case to forge...but I give a go and see what happens.

 

But Im more confused about gray dods?? They have same dendritic sructure...?

+ Surface looks bit flakelly douring grinding??

 

At this time "kill" was good...I think <_<

 

But forging will show what happens and is it just in my mind :lol:

 

Br

 

Niko

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Cyrus...im sorry, did notise the ? but i forget to answer..

 

How long liquidus?

 

I like to look at melting charge...thats why my beard start to shorten too :lol: But i love looking at it,its so cool B)

 

I use test rod and try to feel is it liquid...let it bubble more about 5-10min..if it looks ok, start ram down slow.

 

But its not easy to see chance every time...and its guite hazard to look in too long.

 

BR

 

Niko

Edited by Niko Hynninen
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Hi Niko,

 

that is about the same as I do, see if the charge is liquid, test it with a rod and then I let it slowly bubble for around another 15 minutes. Then I reduce slowly the gas and airflow.

When using a lid, I use a welding rod and put it right next to the crucible and see if it get fluid. Then I know that the temperature is right. After a while with a bit of praying I slow the burner down and hope if everything got fluid and well mixed.

 

Regards, Cyrus

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