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MrBaz

Pick 3 stones

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If you could only pick 3 water stones (for example, from japanwoodworker.com) for sharpening kitchen cutlery, which 3 would you pick?

 

I'm thinking about getting a 1000grit, 3000grit, and 6000grit. Do you think the 6000grit is overkill?

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If you could only pick 3 water stones (for example, from japanwoodworker.com) for sharpening kitchen cutlery, which 3 would you pick?

 

I'm thinking about getting a 1000grit, 3000grit, and 6000grit. Do you think the 6000grit is overkill?

 

 

 

depends on the knives

 

on euro knives the 6000 maybe overkill

 

on hard japanese blades they work great.

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i have an 800, 1200, and 4000... generally..i just use the first two to get the edge the way i like... then use the 4000 for final and touch ups..

- even then.. i find 4000 to be very sharp if done right.. if you need it sharper, you can strop with green compound

 

 

G

 

ps.. to be honest ..unless its a very nice knife... i mostly just use the 1200..

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Any preference as to which material works best? IE: Carbide or Aluminum Oxide stones?

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Mr. Baz,

 

What are you wanting to do with the stones? Just sharpen an already shaped blade? Or shaping? I personally would want the "three" stones for foundation shaping. But if you are just sharpening, that is a different story.

 

Shannon

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For general knives, a cheap 1000 grit waterstone (suehiro, etc.) will keep them sharp for a long time, since I'm willing to bet you have some sandpaper that would remove any edge chips that might occur.

 

For nicer knives, I like to use natural stones; an Aoto (2k to 3k) and a Narutaki (6k to 8k usually) are the only two you need to keep even high end Japanese knives in shape, since the noticeable difference will be very slight above that point.

 

So my recommendation is to start with a cheap 1k waterstone, and see how you like it, then pick up an Aoto, see how that goes, ..., etc.

Edited by Russel Baldridge

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I will be setting the edge with these (and some other stones I have) as well as sharpening some high-end knives.

 

Is a natural stone that much different from a synthetic stone?

Edited by MrBaz

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Alright. What about this arrangement:

 

Aluminum Oxide stones: 800, 1200, 3000, 6000

DMT 325 as a very course stone as well as a flattening stone.

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see for example http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp...p;dept_id=13116 or

 

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp...p;dept_id=13116

 

 

the 1000 grit is a good starting point except for repair work...........you can finish the edge on a good quality japanese knife with 4000-6000 grit

Edited by john marcus

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see for example http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp...p;dept_id=13116 or

 

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp...p;dept_id=13116

 

 

the 1000 grit is a good starting point except for repair work...........you can finish the edge on a good quality japanese knife with 4000-6000 grit

 

 

What would be the underlying reasons to buy a ceramic 1000 grit stone vs. a 1000 grit Aluminum Oxide stone? Same goes for other higher grit stones? Seems there isn't much difference in pricing.

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What would be the underlying reasons to buy a ceramic 1000 grit stone vs. a 1000 grit Aluminum Oxide stone? Same goes for other higher grit stones? Seems there isn't much difference in pricing.

 

 

different feel and lifetime

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different feel and lifetime

 

I've been looking up some reviews on the other 'ceramic' stones. It seems that quite a few of them (even the Shapton stones) use a type of plastic-based resin/epoxy as a binder. This is why they don't need to be soaked in water before use.

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That place and badger & blade is where I have been doing a lot of reading. Very interesting material.

 

 

 

lots of opinions mostly well thought out

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lots of opinions mostly well thought out

 

 

Exactly.

 

Visiting differnet forums for different sharpening methods (one focused on kitchen cutlery, one on straight razors used for shaving, and another on general use knives) gave me tons of great knowledge.

 

Basically, it boils down to this:

 

They all pretty much do the same thing. No stone is exactly 'superior' to another. Stropping vs. using a very high grit finishing stone is a moot argument. Some of these guys are so into it that they strop using 1 micron or less diamond abrasive.

 

Depending on what grit you are using and what finish you are seeking, you may want to use a diamond stone, a carbide stone, or an aluminum oxide stone. Some cut faster than others, but leave a less desirable finish. Some cut fast and leave a very nice finish, but they don't last as long. Some synthetic Japanese stones perform the same as their natural counterpart.

 

I did find it interesting that there are vastly more people that use a DMT diamond plate to flatten their stones than people that use a specific flattening stone. Some used the DMTXXC, but I think the majority of them used a DMT8C, which is a 8"x3" 325 grit plate.

 

I think I'll take a point from Wes at Carter Cutlery: It is more about skill/technique and less about equipment. I'll stick with just the standard aluminum oxide stones for now. I'll get a feel for them and venture from there.

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Exactly.

 

Visiting differnet forums for different sharpening methods (one focused on kitchen cutlery, one on straight razors used for shaving, and another on general use knives) gave me tons of great knowledge.

 

Basically, it boils down to this:

 

They all pretty much do the same thing. No stone is exactly 'superior' to another. Stropping vs. using a very high grit finishing stone is a moot argument. Some of these guys are so into it that they strop using 1 micron or less diamond abrasive.

 

Depending on what grit you are using and what finish you are seeking, you may want to use a diamond stone, a carbide stone, or an aluminum oxide stone. Some cut faster than others, but leave a less desirable finish. Some cut fast and leave a very nice finish, but they don't last as long. Some synthetic Japanese stones perform the same as their natural counterpart.

 

I did find it interesting that there are vastly more people that use a DMT diamond plate to flatten their stones than people that use a specific flattening stone. Some used the DMTXXC, but I think the majority of them used a DMT8C, which is a 8"x3" 325 grit plate.

 

I think I'll take a point from Wes at Carter Cutlery: It is more about skill/technique and less about equipment. I'll stick with just the standard aluminum oxide stones for now. I'll get a feel for them and venture from there.

 

 

 

i couldnt agree more murray carter uses a 1000 and i believe 6000...... makes edges scary sharp !!!

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What would be the underlying reasons to buy a ceramic 1000 grit stone vs. a 1000 grit Aluminum Oxide stone? Same goes for other higher grit stones? Seems there isn't much difference in pricing.

 

As you have no doubt found, the other reason for natural stones, which has been "evaded" thus far, is matching the steel to the stone. Newer, harder steels prefer a softer stone to work them into submission. Older, or softer steels, ("can" -hagane, "scrap" -hagane, tamahagane) will prefer to be worked with harder stones. Even with the same steel, different heat treating can "desire" a different type of stone. The Al2O3 stones will be softer and burn faster. The ceramic stones will be harder, but generally last a lot longer.

 

I used to use a Shapton Pro 2000, but quit using it with my Japanese-style stuff when I realized it was overkill before the hazuya phase.

 

Thanks,

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Is a natural stone that much different from a synthetic stone?

 

Yes. There are a ton of reasons why they are different, ranging from the "hardness" of the stone and the "hardness" of the grit in the stone, to the shape of the grit particles and concentration within the binding material. Overall, you can expect a finer finish from a natural stone than it's synthetic counterpart, and if you are working with Japanese style cutlery they bring out the weld lines in the steel more vividly.

 

Any type of stone will work for what you are doing, really, I've just come to prefer the natural stones (though I've had many artificial hones that were very nice).

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Yes. There are a ton of reasons why they are different, ranging from the "hardness" of the stone and the "hardness" of the grit in the stone, to the shape of the grit particles and concentration within the binding material. Overall, you can expect a finer finish from a natural stone than it's synthetic counterpart, and if you are working with Japanese style cutlery they bring out the weld lines in the steel more vividly.

 

Any type of stone will work for what you are doing, really, I've just come to prefer the natural stones (though I've had many artificial hones that were very nice).

 

 

From where do you purchase your natural stones? I'm going to stick with synthetic for now until I can gain enough revenue to have reason to pay for the natural stones.

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http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Japanese-tools...634Q2ec0Q2em322

 

I've bought a few stones from this guy (Aoto, Binsui, Ioto and a Narutaki), his english is pretty bad, but the stones are decent; the Aotos are very reasonably priced. I know some people who are somewhat wary of his higher priced stones as he doesn't let you try them out before committing to the purchase (which is usually the sign of a reputable dealer) but for the more affordable stones, the risk isn't all that high.

 

Otherwise, there are a few sites listed in a thread somewhere on this board, and if you put the word out to the right people you can make friends with someone who is willing to help you out.

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http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Japanese-tools...634Q2ec0Q2em322

 

I've bought a few stones from this guy (Aoto, Binsui, Ioto and a Narutaki), his english is pretty bad, but the stones are decent; the Aotos are very reasonably priced. I know some people who are somewhat wary of his higher priced stones as he doesn't let you try them out before committing to the purchase (which is usually the sign of a reputable dealer) but for the more affordable stones, the risk isn't all that high.

 

Otherwise, there are a few sites listed in a thread somewhere on this board, and if you put the word out to the right people you can make friends with someone who is willing to help you out.

 

See, now you're making me do even more reading/research on natural stones. ;) How am I ever going to get time to actually make some knives?

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See, now you're making me do even more reading/research on natural stones. ;) How am I ever going to get time to actually make some knives?

 

 

forget the natural stones for now...........besides the ones you would really like cost a fortune. the synthetics do a great job. unless you are bring out the hamon on a traditional japanese sword you may never notice....... see http://thejapanblade.com/suitashop.htm

 

after a year or two of practice you can re visit the issue with alot more knowledge

Edited by john marcus

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For sharpening western style blades I use EZE-Lap diamond bench stones and/or a belt grinder, depending on the knife. For touching up the edge on Japanese style blades, I use EZE-Lap's teeny little diamond hand stones. For shaping Japanese blades, I use synthetic Japanese water stones (binsui, kaisei, chu nagura). The kaisei is Asahi brand. Can't remember the others offhand. For sharpening plane blades I use diamond stones, then move up to 6000 or 8000 grit Japanese water stones.

Edited by Walter Sorrells

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Agreed, synthetic stones will do a great job, and are readily available in uniform grit ratings for reasonable prices.

 

Yeah, Alex has a nice site, one of the largest private collections of Nakayama stones I've seen, his prices are above the usual rate for them though.

Edited by Russel Baldridge

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