Attaching rail road track to steel.

[Kurt]

Sorry I don't have pictures, I'll do my best to explain.

 

I have an old 1 foot section of rail road track. I don't like it as an anvil, it's curved, and the flat end is too narrow to be useful to me.

 

I also have this 1 inch thick mostly-round nice and flat piece of steel.

 

I put two and two together today, and it was heavenly. They fit perfectly together, like a T, with the steel slab lying on top of the sideways railroad track. The problem is that they're not attached. My furnace isn't big enough (or hot enough, I don't think) to do forge welding, although I could maybe make a campfire and use a hairdryer to maybe make something hot enough. I read that normal (arc) welding is not a good seal, and lots of energy from the hammer is lost or something?

 

I've read about steel-faced anvils, so I know I'm not the first to try this. How would I go about attaching these things together?

[john marcus]

why would welding not be good ??????? the world is held together by welds !!

[Geoff Keyes]

There is a recent thread here somewhere about welded anvils. The gist is this, it nearly impossable to get enough penetration to weld a piece of plate to another piece of steel, like trying to put a new face on an old body. You nearly always get a dead spot right in the middle, right where you don't want it.

 

Yes, there are anvils with tool steel faces welded to mild or wrought bodies, I have one and I love it. But... the process is not as simple as MIG welding a slab of steel to a mild chunk, it mostly required casting a mild body over the top of a tool steel face, and not losing the bond when you heat treat the face.

 

I also have an anvil that is made up of welded pieces. It has about half the rebound of my un-heat treated post anvil, which has less rebound than my 200# Fisher which has less rebound than my 125 Hay Budden. The problem is energy loss between the welded layers. And lest you think that it is an issue of poor welds, the guy who built the thing is an artist, 30+ years of experience and certifications up the wazoo.

 

Think about ways to mount your piece of plate, like on the end of a tall stump, you would probably be better off than trying to weld the two together. You might also think about mounting your piece of track on end, and using the end of the track to work on. My main anvil is a 5 x 6.5 inch x 32 inch block of 4140. I use it on end, in a holder welded to 200 lbs of steel plate. It works great.

 

Geoff

Edited May 31, 2009 by Geoff Keyes

[john marcus]

There is a recent thread here somewhere about welded anvils. The gist is this, it nearly imposable to get enough penetration to weld a piece of plate to another piece of steel, like trying to put a new face on an old body. You nearly always get a dead spot right in the middle, right where you don't want it.

 

Yes, there are anvils with tool steel faces welded to mild or wrought bodies, I have one and I love it. But... the process is not as simple as MIG welding a slab of steel to a mild chunk, it mostly required casting a mild body over the top of a tool steel face, and not losing the bond when you heat treat the face.

 

I also have an anvil that is made up of welded pieces. It has about half the rebound of my un-heat treated post anvil, which has less rebound than my 200# Fisher which has less rebound than my 125 Hay Budden. The problem is energy loss between the welded layers. And lest you think that it is an issue of poor welds, the guy who built the thing is an artist, 30+ years of experience and certifications up the wazoo.

 

Think about ways to mount your piece of plate, like on the end of a tall stump, you would probably be better off than trying to weld the two together. You might also think about mounting your piece of track on end, and using the end of the track to work on. My main anvil is a 5 x 6.5 inch x 32 inch block of 4140. I use it on end, in a holder welded to 200 lbs of steel plate. It works great.

 

Geoff

 

 

 

thanks for the info......... i didnt have a clue it was a problem

[Greg H.]

There is a recent thread here somewhere about welded anvils. The gist is this, it nearly imposable to get enough penetration to weld a piece of plate to another piece of steel, like trying to put a new face on an old body. You nearly always get a dead spot right in the middle, right where you don't want it.

 

 

I to was unaware of this problem and having seen this ( http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/RR-rail_anvils.htm ) - it sure looked like welding RR track was acceptable.

[Geoff Keyes]

I guess it's a matter of what is "acceptable". I have seen a number of repaired and refaced anvils. In every case they have had dead spots and have been a less effective tool than they started out with. I have also seen a large piece of mild steel, hard surfaced and dressed flat. It worked pretty well, but it was many 10 of hours of work to get there. OTOH, any anvil is better than no anvil at all.

 

Wayne Goddard built an anvil from a length of RR track, two heavy steel plates welded from the track to the foot, an end plate and then filled the space with steel junk and welded another end on. It had nice weight, but not much rebound.

 

I got lucky when I was starting out, I found a 200# Fisher. I see anvils at the local blacksmith conferences and from time to time in the local area, but they are scarce, especially here in the West. If I were in the market for an anvil today, I'd save up for a TSR, or a Nimba, or one of the Old World anvils, and use whatever I could scrounge in the meantime.

 

OTO,OH what is the worst thing that could happen if you tried welding the two pieces together. You'd get some experience with the welder, and if it didn't work you'd only be out your time and a couple of pieces of steel. If it does work to your satisfaction, then you've got a tool to use until something better comes along.

 

I think anvilfire had a how-to by a guy who built an anvil out of pieces of 1 inch plate. He cut out an anvil profile, stacked the pieces, 5 or 6 of them, pinned and welded the pieces and then stood it on its foot and ground the top surface flat. For that amount of work and materials you probably could have bough a new anvil.

 

I think that at some point you need to ask yourself which thing you'd prefer to be making, tools or knives. Sometimes you don't have any choice, and you have to stop and make tools, but often you do.

 

Geoff

[Geoff Keyes]

Sorry, double post,

 

Geoff

Edited May 31, 2009 by Geoff Keyes

[Matthew McKenzie]

As is discussed in the link that Greg H. posted, if you turn the railroad track on its end so it stands up like a pole, the cross section of the rail area should be wide enough to work for all but the largest knives. It'll be a rough oval about 2 inches in diameter, which is no smaller than the average "sweet spot" on an actual anvil. My recommendation to you, Kurt, would be to sink your railroad track in a bucket of concrete, leaving four or five inches sticking up. Then dress the face to make sure it's smooth and flat. Afterward, mount your steel plate on a stump or weld it to a pole and use it like a stake anvil. You'll be able to do all your shaping and hard-hammering work on the railroad track. When you're done, you can move over to the steel plate to make sure your blade is flat and straight. I have a similar setup with a railroad track plate on a stake because my anvil is quite swaybacked.

[Isaiah Lake]

I have two rr track anvils that work great. One is up right and one is side ways.