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John Smith

Collaberation With Jim

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Well Jim Hirosula and my self will be doing several projects this summer, one being a 1080/L-6 say 1200 layers forged into a Chisa Katana length blade, and the left over I will be forging into a Wakizashi.

 

Jim will be forge welding the material and drawing it out into hmmm my favorite bar stock 3/8" x 1" x 3 1/2' I will be forging the blades themselves and doing the polishing and such.

 

As this project unfolds we will be posting pictures of the work in progress and then the final pieces after they are polished and ready for mounts.

 

I promise this will be good guys and gals.

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Hello:

 

Yeah we be brainstorming on this...gonna get a bit creative on the laminates...I will be starting with some "antique" 1095 that I have had laying about here for oh..25 years or so... It is 1/8" x 1"...9 layers of that....The L-6 I have had laying about for about 15 years....this will be 16 Ga (0.063/065ish) 8 layers on that which will give us 17 layers to start..The pieces are a little over 13" long. (I have a rather large stockpile of all sorts of stuff...I order my steel by the ton usually..I still have close to 1200 pounds of pure Ni sheet that I got back in the mid 1970's when Daryl Meier and I were first playing with this stuff...Gee I am feeling OLD)

 

What I am planning on doing is "tarting it up" on the laminates...welding the stack, drawing out and cutting into thirds or quarters and then using either a mix of L-6 and some 1060 shim stock or just L-6 or just the 1060 and welding that...I may even ladder the faggot a couple of times between welds just to mix up the Hada....

 

This way I will be "adding" more mass and material to the faggot and playing around with the hada as well...I want it really mixed up... Should make for an interesting grain..I MIGHT even add some 0.003" Pure Ni I have around here at the start to give some colour...It would be pretty well difused through the bar by the time it all gets welded up...

 

I am figuring 4 or 5 welding courses... which will give in excess of 16K in the layers or more depending upon how I do it... Making really expensive 1070 here....

 

So the first photos will be posted hopefully tomorrow....I am slipping this in on my "regular" forgiung schedule..should have the forging done in under a week if all goes well....

 

I am looking forward to having some fun on this....

 

JPH

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Hello:

 

Well the project is started... THis will be done in a series of photos..hopefully they will be in order...if I mess up...(which is more then likely) I am sure ya all can figure them out

 

 

The first photo is my Brooks amvil..this one is my "every day" one that I use for most everything except for my guillotine tooling (I have a 210# Peter Wright for that)

 

The second photo is the faggot evened up and wired for welding

 

The third photo is the raw material, the 1095 and the L-6...The 1095 is on top...9 pieces of 1" x 1/8" x 13 1/2" ish...

 

So I will end this post and do another showing the weld and a few other pics....I think i am running close to the limit on width here...

 

JPH

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Edited by JPH

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Hello:

 

OK I messed up wih the photo sequence...so here's to hoping I get it right this time...

 

The photo is of my press.."Julius Squeezer"..I use this for dimensional forgings...really makes life easier

 

The photo is the bundled material in the forge heating for welding..

 

The photo is the faggot welded after the first weld..All welds look solid (and they proved to be through the first drawing course) You can see the 17 layers in the bar if you look close. THis was done by hand as I can feel the weld take...I just don't trust welding under power..I am a bit olde fashioned that way...

 

The last photo is the drawn out piece...it is approx 36" x 1 1/4" by 7/16"... I will be adding more material between welding courses...

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Edited by JPH

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Ok..I am going to admit that I have no idea as to what I am doing in posting photos..I will just have to let ya all figure them out order wise as I am bass akwards...One of these days I will get with the program and know what I am doing on this computer....(yeah riiiight...)

 

Geeze... well this is all for today...I am a bit concerned about the overall C content of the faggot when done so I will probably bring that down a bit by adding some 1010 between the layers during this next welding course and rely upon carbon migration to bring it down a tad..By the time all the welding is done it should be more or less homogenous...and the C content closer to where I want it to be..about 65 pts or so...

 

More tomorrow...

 

JPH

Edited by JPH

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cool stuff, and by the way we don't care if the photos are in order, just the fact that you guys are considerate enough to post them is a gift in and of its self. It's always good to learn from the best, so on behalf of all us who are envious and in awe of what you do... thank you

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Hello:

 

Ok I had an extra 45 minutes today before I was going to knock off so I went ahead and did the second weld...Thought I would get a jump on tomorrow...

 

I have no idea as to what order these photyos are going to come so....

 

The photo of the 5 pieces are as follows. The group of three pieces are the 17 layer laminate 1095/L6, 3/8" x 1 1/2" x 12ish" the other two pieces are mild steel (had to pop down to the local BigBox hardware store to get some...gee for some reason I don't have any about..hummmm) that are 1/8" x 1 1/4 x 12ish. I debarked the laminate and lost about 1/16" in thickness but hey..I am adding 3.75 cubic inches of material so...

 

 

The next photo will be of the stack of 5 wired together Dagwood style. I am adding the mild steel after consulting with John who agreed that we are going to have waaaay too much C for him to be "comfortable" with yaki-ire, so I am adding the mild steel and letting carbon migration do that for us. Also, by adding the addiotnal material I am getting the mass up...we are shooting for enough material for a Wakizashi for John and a Chisa Katana for myself...

 

The next picture will be of the welded faggot. Again this is hand welded as for some reason..(could all be in my head...probably is..) I get a better weld by hand than I do under power. Guess it is all in how you learn...I was taught to weld by hand by Herr Hauffmann and well..my mentor's teaching still rings true..(He was a FANTASTIC smith..really showed the "English Kid"....some neat stuff in the limited time I was under his tutelage)

 

The last photo is the welded bar of we will say 50 layers with the first draw down finished..One more drawing course and I should double the length and reduce the thickness by 1/2.. It is now 1 1/4" wide, 7/8"ish thick and 19" or so long..

 

So we are gaining some serious mass..we are sitting at about 17.75 Cubic Inches so far... I figure we will need another 6 cubic inches or so to get what we need....Since I will be shimming twice more with 1/8" thick material.. 1 shim set will be the mild steel..one will be 1095..then adding some L-6 along the way just to keep up the mass a bit and to play with the hada we should be set material wise..

 

John wishes for approx 1" x 3/8" to start out with when he does his part...This should not be a problem..at least no so far, as everything is going along quite well but this is just the 2nd weld..there are at least 4 more welds if we want to stop at around 4K...need to talk that over with John.... by then everything should be pretty well homogenized as far as the C content goes..

 

Well that's all for tonight work wise..(really..honest..)

 

Hope the photos work out OK..

 

JPH

 

 

 

So far the

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Edited by JPH

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Dude you work fast.

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Love this post, keep us posted.

Chris

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Well as it stands Jim is right I feel that if we can get the carbon level to around .55 to .60 we will accomplish two goals here. One we will lower the risk of cracking the blades or worse breaking them. Second we will get alot of activity in the hamon which will accent the hada.

 

Jim and I are trying to figure out if we want a high layer count which might sacrifce the hada a little bit or go for a lesser layercount and let the hada just pop out. I for one think we shoudl go for a layer count that lets the hada pop out. But JIm and myself will talk about this soon.

 

So as we added the 1010 steel to also boost the mass which will give us a little more to work with as it is easier to work down then up.

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Dude you work fast.

 

 

Hello:

 

You have to realize that I have been doing this (more or less) for 40 some odd years... My studio is set up to allow for a minimal amount of "lost time" and when you have the equipment I do...it doesn't take all that long to do....plus swinging an 8# hammer makes welding very quick and solid so....That is all the time...welding..plus when you run gas..there is really very little "down time" waiting for coal to coke down and SLTT....

 

Between the Little Giant and the press...forging goes pretty quickly...most of the time is spent waiting for bars to heat....

 

JPH

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this looks cool. can i ask, thlough, why the L6? i can see it helping the pattern of the hada, whilst lowering the C. content , (from memory, L6 is about .65 - .7?) but while you do that, doesn't the increased manganese along with other alloying elements, screw with your time/temp for water quenching. particularly if you add pure nickle to the mix. i mean, i honestly dunno, i just think that when you water quench, the more you can minimise the alloying elements. the better.

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Hello:

 

By the time we are done adding all the 10XX series steel..the amount of L-6 will be "diminished" enough that the amounts of Mn and Mo will play little part in the HT....the 1095 has approx 30 to 50 pts Mn (the same basically for the 1010 I added) and the L-6 has about 70/75 pts Mn...so the Mn will be lower a bit...By the time we are done laminating..it will pretty well be homogenous ..

 

If we stay at the 4000 layer count we will be more or less looking at, in a 3/8" thick bar...a layer "thickness" of approx 0.000093" ish of an inch... What ever Hada will be will probably result from the weld lines...and the decarb in them...at least the last few welds before C migration gets everything leveled out....

 

I went with the L-6 for the Ni and the Cr levels, and by the time they are welded..(it..the L-6, will be less than 1/3rd the total amount of the bar) will be enough for a bit of contrast..I hope....and not be high enough (I feel) to cause any problems by the time the additional 1010 and the 1060 is added... I am going to refrain from adding the pure Ni I was originally going to (after thinking it over for a bit..) due to the problems with HT..I will be relying on the L-6 for the contrast..if any....

 

Hopefully the Hada will exhibit some colour variation as well...Never took anything up that high layer wise before....well..when I am making shear steel...here again...this is along the lines of what we are doing now..homogenizing the content of the bar...and hoping for some grain to be visible when we are done...

 

Either way it will be interesting...

 

JPH

Edited by JPH

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Jim

yes steel is so much easier than computers EH?..... at least for those of us who learned about forging before there were computers.. LOL... Good to see you figured out how get some good photos up .. each one worth a thousand words.. I'm still trying to learn how myself... thanks for posting them ....I'm sure you'll figure out how to get them in the right order.... but I don't think anyone is really concerned about the order as much as they are about the content.... I like how you built your press.....this thread is going to be fun to watch....

dick

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Wow, this thread is going to be great to watch. I already can't wait for the next installment!

 

Thanks for taking the time to document this you guys, I know how much work that adds to a project...

 

-d

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Hello all

 

If you ever Get the chance to Watch Jim Forge do so. But I worn you don't even Blink one time you will wonder how he made that little folded up billet into a full lenth sword I have seen him do this first hand it is truely amazing to watch he has no wasted steps or wasted time in his shop. and never get in his way unless you wish to be welded up with the steel :-)

 

 

Bill Jones

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Talk about "German efficiency"! I'd hate for John to end up in the billet, hope you move fast enough :lol: This will be a thread to watch, for sure.

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Hello again:

 

Well todays was a rather light day work wise on this project due to the fact that I ran out of LPG on the very last heat on drawing it out...so the first pic is the drawn out bar.. The bar drew out to a tad over 45" in length 1 1/4" wide and 7/16" ish thick...I then cut it into four (4) pieces 11 1/4" long, ground off the scale and started to sandwhich it again for welding.

 

The second photo is of the stack wired with the additional material added between the laminate.. I am adding two pieces (2) of 1095 and one (1) of the 1010...The 1010 is the centre piece.

 

Now that the lamination is progressing I have to be careful and start to really think about what I am doing not only on where I am at the present but also where I will be on the next step when it comes to what I add (if anything) and "where" it will wind up in the faggot on the next step.

 

So thinking ahead, I placed the low C into the centre of the faggot with the 1095 more towards the "outside" of the stack, so when I lamiate it after this weld/draw the 1095 will be closer to the "centre" of the bar. By my calculations we should be between 70 pts C and 75 pts C once this weld is made. Now we are relying upon carbon migration to more or less "even out" the C content as I am welding and drawing. As it is now, I am planning on adding two more pieces of 1010, this time on the outside of the faggot and three pieces of 1060 0.065 sheet in between the laminates and then weld.

 

The reason for the 1010 on the outside is material loss on the billet as it is drawn down. I am starting to see "layer lines" while drawing and adding the 1010 will not only boost the mass but it will be more or less a "sacrificial layer" while forging. This will help "protect" the "laminate section" from material loss during the weld/drawing down cycle..... Now this means I will, the next weld after that, need to add more 1060 to allow for C content..which is what I will do....It does take some thought when you do this and just "slapping" something together may work..but I feel that careful consideration is the key in doing this piece.

 

As it is, by adding the 1095 and the 1010 I have increased the mass by roughly 5.25 cubic inches...

 

So it looks like we will have plenty of material for John to do his thing...

 

Well the gas man comes tomorrow morning and none too soon..I am having fun doing this...even though my indoor thermometer is reading 131 F by the forge....

 

More as things progress....

 

JPH

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Edited by JPH

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One the steel gets to me, then I will start by setting the sunobe to match the specs that Jim wants and then I will start forging the blades. I am very excited about this project.

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Hello:

 

Well I got an early start today and now that I have more LPG work can proceed...I am doing this in between my other projects so it is catch as catch can as to exactly when I work on this..It is my "fun project" for this week (at least)..

 

Ok the first photo is the stack welded. I tell you that 8# hammer makes a world of difference here. I doubt if a "standard" 3# would have the "oooomph" needed to get these pieces together. Now some folks look at me funny when they find out I swing such a heavy hammer but my mentor Herr Hauffman said use as heavy a hammer you can lift and CONTROL and let the hammer do the work and you will wind up working "less"...I find he was dead on..been using an 8# hammer now for geeze...25 years or so...took a while to work up to it....I do use a lighter hammer for small work but my general forging the 8#'r rules....

 

The second photo is the first draw course and probably where I will be stopping for today as I have some "real work" to get done around here...

 

As it sits now..the piece has more or less, 200 layers and is 1 1/2" x 7/8" x 20" which makes a mass amount of 26.25 (approx) cubic inches... I have a call in to John to see if he feels there is enough for him to work with...I will need to add a little more material to allow for loss from welding and forging opperations...As it is...everything looks great as far as I can tell. The "bad" thing is..you never know for sure until you "cut into" the bar during final grinding..then you can get a really awful surprize...Well...you get what you get...

 

But the welds look solid and I see nothing that would indicate otherwise.. I will say if I had to work this all by hand (like I use to..) I wouldn't even be half way where I am now..

 

The next step is drawing this out and then thinking what I want to do after that. Like I said in earlier...I now have to start thinking at least two steps ahead now...

 

More photos will be posted as the work progresses..

 

JPH

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wow

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Mike wow is right. I talked to Jim the other night and the billet is huge and almost ready we are taking to to about 1000 layers, not sure what that translates into as far as internal layers after all the folding.

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Jim,

 

What amazes me about you is how FAST you work.

 

You've developed levels of efficiency that are really remarkable. Given the quality of your work, that's pretty darn impressive.

 

--Dave

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Hello:

 

Well today was productive..goit some "legit" work done and had some spare time and since the forge was already hot...

 

The first photo is of the drawn out bar...this thing is freakin' Loooong... 75" long... 1" wide and 1/4" think...200 layers...I was really dancing around drawing this out...

 

So thinking the over...I decided to cut it into 6 pieces of equal length...this will in theory give us the 1200 layers (6 x 200) that John and I originally discussed when we first started talking about this...

 

The second photo is of the 6 laminate pieces, each 12 1/2" long.... and 4 pieces of 1" x 1/8" 10965..I am calculating that I may of lost a little more C than I thought so... I am adding some more...Besides this will help bump up the mass of the faggot...

 

The third photo is of the stack wired for welding. Now I did not shim the two centre laminate pieces cause I want laminate on the centre section..This is why I added the two pieces of the 1095 the last weld...so the high carbon steel will be closer to the centre of the finished bar...

 

The last photo is the final weld..and the first draw down..This is as far as I got today....The faggot is now 1 1/4" wide, 1" thick and 18" long.... which is roughly 28 Cubic inches.... which will give us what we need....

 

As it is now....I am going to draw this down to the 1" x 3/8" that John likes to work with and while I am doing that I am going to "play about" with the hada a little... I haven't decided on exactly what I will be doing yet but John and I want it all funky...So I will see what I can do to funky it up a bit...

 

Once I get it drawn down a bit I am going to slice off a small piece and do a hardness test as well as cut a window into one end of the bar and see what we have come up with...I am sure it will harden up fine..

 

All welds seem solid and clean..I haven't seen any indication of any cold shuts or inclusions when I sliced the billet for stacking so we should be ok...Still it is a mystery until you cut into it...We will see...I did a double weld on this , this time just to "make sure" everything is stuck together....I don't want John to get any unpleasant surprizes...

 

Well that's it for tonight..the next day or two I will do the drawing down and getting this sent up to John...the rest is his...so look for his part shortly...I will post the final pics when they are done...

 

 

JPH

 

Dave: I work the way I was taught...more or less.....if you are waiting for something to heat..don't just stand there....do something productive while you are waiting..file this..fit that...just produce. Yes, this started out as a hobby..and a fun one at that..but now it is my business..my livelyhood..I still love doing it...and with all the years' worth of experience I have..I have my "rythm" down as far as how I work...that's all it is... speed from repetition....

 

Speed comes with skill and knowing the materials...when I try something "different"..I still screw up...mistakes are still made..you just deal with it.. Herr Hauffmann said the difference between a Master Craftsman and anyone else is that while he still makes mistakes..he can fix it so that it appears that the "mistake" is suppose to be there...

 

DANG IT!! I did it again.messed up the order..sheesh...

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Edited by JPH

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