JimC Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I got my first Iyoto in the mail on Friday. Based on comparison with graded abrasives, I'd say that it is around American 400 grit. Beyond that, all I can say is how wonderful the abrasive and polishing action are. Every time I have the money to get a new stone from Japan, I come away with the feeling that there is no substitute for the real thing. Not to get all new agey and woo-woo on you all, but the stones FEEL different from polishing with sandpaper. They almost have personality. If you're feeling like tackling the site with Google Translator like I did, then go to www.330mate.com. Prepare to drool. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 hey jim. i can understand your feeling. as humans we are so mental. ( that could be good or bad some days. lol ) its the little things that give us the feeling of satisfaction.. glad you found something that gives you peace. enjoy the therapy of usnig your stone.. relax... enjoy the process. chris. i could complain but who would listen. chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Madigan Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I almost hate sandpaper enough to drop $500 on stones. Almost. When you look at the Yen price tags, then take the last 2 zeros off to estimate the dollar amount, stuffs still pretty 'spensive. Next time I get to Japan I'm going to lose all my money on supplies (again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Madigan Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Make that $500 on ONE stone. I forgot natural stones are that much more expensive than synthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 You tell me when and I will drop $500 in your lap to pick me up some supplies as well LOL well maybe if my wife says ok. LOL John W Smithwww.smith-forge.orgFire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth, Conan. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook. Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.[Points to sword]This you can trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john marcus Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) just in case you were not having fun yet http://thejapanblade.com/suitashop.htm once you adsorb that see http://thejapanblade.com/nakayamashop1.htm Edited August 4, 2009 by john marcus infinite edge cutlery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Yeah. Painful, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 With Nakaoka-san, it would be pretty easy to get iyoto, arato and something in the shigateo range for less than $500, even with shipping. I got 3kg of iyoto discards (broken stones, pieces left over from squaring off other stones) and with a little work, I'm set for slurry stones for the quite a long time. The shipping is murder, though. You tell me when and I will drop $500 in your lap to pick me up some supplies as well LOL well maybe if my wife says ok. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john marcus Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 for foundation stones and many supplies http://www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/english/index.html infinite edge cutlery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 wow,natural stones are expensive.. im to poor for such stones. if i win the lottery ill get the complete kit for 45,000 yen. i was sharpening a knife today thinking i should upgrade to some new stones... sigh. laughs we only live once so if you have the cash go for it i say. chris. i could complain but who would listen. chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Chris, If you're in Arizona, then you've got potentially useful stone for arato and binsui substitutes nearby. I snagged a slab of Arizona picture sandstone on ebay that works really well for medium rough work. For all I know, there may be more interesting stuff near you. I can't recommend www.330mate.com highly enough if you can't afford Namikawa Heibei. 330 also has a store on ebay "Japanese Tool and Whetstone for Sword", and he's generally got interesting stuff available there. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 anyone have experience with nortons whetstones? im thinking giving them a try.. starting out with 1000 grit for my first water stone? what do you guys think? chris. i could complain but who would listen. chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Williams Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) I'm not a knife maker but do a lot of timber frame and hand plane work that requires the best edge I can get. I use Shapton water stones 320, 1500, and 5000 grit, followed with chromium oxide on a leather strop over hardwood to get a mirror finish and a shaving edge. If tool edges are way out of geometry then the 120 grit Shapton stone will bring things back to order pretty quickly. http://www.shaptonstones.com/index.php?mai...p;cPath=164_167 Unfortunately the instructions that come with the Shapton stones are in Japanese so I don't know if I am using them to their best! I highly recommend the Shapton stones and expect that they will perform better than the Norton half-this-half-that stones. Edited August 8, 2009 by Skip Williams Skip Williams The Rockbridge Bloomery http://iron.wlu.edu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 Nortons are good from what I've heard. Naniwa are supposed to be excellent, as are the Shaptons that Skip mentions. I'd suggest a Norton combo stone with a different grit on each side. That way you get more "introduction" for your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNeckLeftie Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) I have used all 4 of the Norton stones: AVOID the greenish #220--it is near useless!! You will spend more time re-flattening it than using it, and it works too slow to be of value for anything other than "good" plane blades. However, their #1000 and #4000 are awesome stones. I would say the #4000 requires too-often re-flattening (very soft stone), so make sure you move around and use most all the stone surface when working a blade. The #8000 is a bit of overkill for Japanese-style, but if you are after a high mirror polish, more power to you. You will need surgeon's hands to get clean, even strokes that do not end up "cloudy." I actually used a #8000 to mimic "migaki" (burnishing) of mune/shinogi on a gunto by cutting the stone into pieces ~ 1" wide, and single-stroking them down the blade. Skip, the info I have on Shapton is simply to make sure you do not soak the stones in water, they are ceramic and only need to be splashed with water while using them. Soaking a ceramic stone is bad for it, and can cause it to fail/fall apart prematurely. Allow them to dry after use. I have also used Shapton stones, their #2000 Pro is amazing. Thanks, Edited August 9, 2009 by RedNeckLeftie Brian K. Rogue Amateur and Weekend Hobbyist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 here is info on shapton.. http://www.shaptonstones.com/includes/lang...tones/care.html the price are about the same for the nortons and shaptons. chris. i could complain but who would listen. chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guarnera Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Chris,If you're in Arizona, then you've got potentially useful stone for arato and binsui substitutes nearby. I snagged a slab of Arizona picture sandstone on ebay that works really well for medium rough work. For all I know, there may be more interesting stuff near you. I can't recommend www.330mate.com highly enough if you can't afford Namikawa Heibei. 330 also has a store on ebay "Japanese Tool and Whetstone for Sword", and he's generally got interesting stuff available there. -Jim Jim, The 330 sight looks promising, but its all in Japanese, and I can't read Japanese, So its pretty much useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john marcus Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Jim, The 330 sight looks promising, but its all in Japanese, and I can't read Japanese, So its pretty much useless. use google to translate it http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...%3DG%26num%3D20 Edited August 10, 2009 by john marcus infinite edge cutlery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Williams Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Thanks all for the info on using Shapton stones. Fortunately I have no problem with keeping them flat so they must be pretty dang hard to start with. I even use them to polish cast iron samples for the microscope with no problem. The question I constantly have is - Should I wash the slurry off of the stone and work on the bare stone surface or should I let the slurry build up? If I leave the slurry on the stone and it dries, it takes quite a while to get back to a nice smooth surface. Any opinions? And of course there is the earlier implied question, are expensive natural stones any different from the ceramic ones? JimC sorry for high jacking your thread. I'm totally into 'What is Sharp' these days. Edited August 10, 2009 by Skip Williams Skip Williams The Rockbridge Bloomery http://iron.wlu.edu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john marcus Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) lots of opinions on what makes any edge scary sharp. slurry with metal chips is bad.... clean slurry is good for polishing, not so good for sharpening. i think most agree that the ultimate edge is two planes intersecting a line ( the edge).. many believe the slurry will not make as flat a plane as a clean stone.........and hence a less perfect edge take your pick natural vrs synthetic is a long discussion. what i can say for certain is that different steels respond differently to a given stone. also stones all have different 'feels' when being used from a hard glassy feel to a soft high resistance surface. so the stones are different and the steels are different the hardness of the steels are different......which gives rise to a very large number of combinations. Edited August 11, 2009 by john marcus infinite edge cutlery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Hijack all you like Skip! I'm in a similar place as far as "what is sharp" goes. There are so many opinions, variations and minutia that a person could spend a lifetime exploring the nature of "sharp". For me, it is very much based around what the blade's intended purpose is and whether or not the edge I've put on it will fulfill that function to the best of my knowledge. This isn't to say that I don't mess around with all sorts of stones, strops and compounds...or that I don't have perpetual bald spots on my right arm, because I do. I can't help but push an edge just THIS MUCH further to see what will happen, but I have to fall back on the intended function or I'll never leave my workshop. Annoys the Wife, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Madigan Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I can't help it. I love machine translations: レアもんですからおみのがしなく。 It is not rare for the best. 数は結構あります。 There are quite a few. 彫り物は全部梅です。 Carving is all plum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 If that's from 330mate.com, do the translation for the front page and look at the first offering in the box with the plants on the iyoto stones. Have nothing in your mouth when you do this, or it might fly out your nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 lol "peach bowl is extra" laughs chris. i could complain but who would listen. chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Madigan Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) That is hilarious. I want to inscribe that on a tang. Edited August 11, 2009 by toxonix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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