KPeacock Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Well, my pattern welded hnuting knife was a huge success. I'm happy the groom was pleased with it, but even more happy that quite a few folks that saw it want me to make them similar knives. I've got "orders" for 11 of them. One gentleman asked if I could make him a fillet knife that he wont have to sharpen after every other salmon he cuts up. I have little doubt that I can make a sarvicible knife, but I'm unsure of the best way to heat treat the steel. I've got 1095 and W2 from known sources, and a whole lot of leaf springs which I presume to be 5160. My guess is that the leaf springs are going to be the better of the three for a fillet knife, but I don't know the best way to heat treat it. I'd like the steel to be a bit flexy so it will be easier to use. Any thoughts on the best way to temper the steel? With such a thin blade, I'll obviously normalize a few times before the quench to decrese the potential for cracking and warping. Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charred Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I've been thinking about this same thing using 9260, I think the way I'm going to attempt it is to forge it as thin as I can, normalize it numerous times, grind it even thinner, very gently heat it probably just on Hardwood coals without any air blast and see if I can get it to critical then quench in oil and then temper it and grind it thinner and keep it as cool as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEzell Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Well, my pattern welded hnuting knife was a huge success. I'm happy the groom was pleased with it, but even more happy that quite a few folks that saw it want me to make them similar knives. I've got "orders" for 11 of them. One gentleman asked if I could make him a fillet knife that he wont have to sharpen after every other salmon he cuts up. I have little doubt that I can make a sarvicible knife, but I'm unsure of the best way to heat treat the steel. I've got 1095 and W2 from known sources, and a whole lot of leaf springs which I presume to be 5160. My guess is that the leaf springs are going to be the better of the three for a fillet knife, but I don't know the best way to heat treat it. I'd like the steel to be a bit flexy so it will be easier to use. Any thoughts on the best way to temper the steel? With such a thin blade, I'll obviously normalize a few times before the quench to decrese the potential for cracking and warping. There was a thread here recently...http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14274 Again, I've only made two of them, but in my defense one took multiple tries.... Flexibility is dependent on cross-section and thickness, heat-treatment would affect how it reacts to flexing, unless I'm mistaken on that... George Ezell, bladesmith" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."Buffonview some of my work RelicForge on facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 thanks for the link. Last night I cut a few strips of steel and hammered them out to thin the stock down a bit. I'm going to make a few test pieces to get an idea of what the end product will be and then take an educated guess at what I need to do for the real knife. I've got quite a few other projects going on right now, but I'd like to get the forge fired up at least once a week so I can make saome sort of progress. Thanks again, Kris Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpile Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 K-- I start with 1/16" steel profiled and hardened/tempered before any grinding/sanding. I harden the bottom third or half of the blade. I like O1, A2, and HSS. The HSS is from STARETT re-ciprocating hack saw blades. I grind the saw blade as is. Making sure not to blue the blade. Bigger older machine shops is where to look for the HSS Hack saw blades. You can make three filet knives from each hacksaw blade. chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Roth Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 As you saw, I'm working on one now made of 1080 and 15n20 240 layer random pattern. I have it rough forged and annealed now, just getting ready to grind it. I plan on doing a through hardening, but well tempered. I think a differentially hardened blade would seem prone to taking a set. I have some ideas to help the blade survive the quench, we'll have to see if they work. I am working a low temp salt pot that would be ideal for these types of things. But won't have it ready for a while yet. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes, and since I'm down in Savage, you could use the salt pot once I get it running. I'm thinking bainite may make for an ideal fillet knife. Steel is my canvas, a hammer my brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Tate, You're quite close to me indeed. I live in Prior lake righ off of CR-42. I'm about 2 blocks from the big PL water tower at CR-42 and CR-18. you can;t be more than a couple of miles from me. please do let me know how it goes for you. Thanks, Kris Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Roth Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I did some grinding today, deciding how thin I feel comfortable with. May grind the bevels later tonight. Going to slow the grinder and take it slow. While grinding I found an inclusion in the tang, and one tiny one that will end up right at the ricasso plunge. With a little more thinning I might get past it. And yeah, you are close, I'm 1 block from Hidden Valley elementary. Right off glendale. I'm not sure what kind of equipment you have. But I have an imagination x-press if you want to make some billets some time. Steel is my canvas, a hammer my brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I too worked one down a little bit. It's about 2X as thich as I want it right now....yet it's already thinner than anything I've quenched before. I had to stop before I had it where I wanted it. Apparently I missed the memo that I was required to fold laundry instead of "Plying with that silly forge." I corrected the Mrs. by letting her know that the forge was not running. This may not have been the best tactic. At any rate, It'll be a week or two before I can get all of my test knives where I want them to get them all quenched and tempered and check the results. I'm taking a bit of a break from damascus for a while. I got a box of Don Hansons W2 and I want to see what I can get by way of a hamon. I appreciate the offer to use the press. 've got a homemade air/hydraulic press that works well enough, but clearly has it's downsides to it. Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Roth Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 No problem, I have some of don's W2 as well. Will get around to playing around with it soon. The offer stands if you ever want to try the press, it's great for breaking down stock too. How do you like your air/hydraulic press? I assume it's one of the mini h-frames in the tools area correct? It's always fun with wives. Whenever I don't ask I'm wrong, and anytime I ask, I get chewed out for having to ask as I should just know. Steel is my canvas, a hammer my brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Mine is a mini H-frame style press modled after the one seen i nthe tools section. Although it's not quite as fast as the full-sized presses, it certainly works better than a hammer and the anvil. It wouldn't suit the needs of someone doing this for a living, but it is effective for a hobbyist like myself. I'm excited to get to work on Don's W2. I had to sit on it for a while as I didn't have a great way to cut through the stock. I've got a chop saw, but I prefer to do it a bit quieter and with less sparks. I've now got my metal cutting bandsaw in the shop and cut one of the bars into smaller pieces. Now it's just a matter of having the free time to dabble with it. I'd like to get a decent fillet knife made first. my wife and I go salmon fishing in Michigan a few times a year on my step father-in-law's 30' Persuit boat. He loves salmon fishing and bought the boat just for it. He never accepts any form of payment for the cost of fuel, tackle, food,...etc. I figure a nice fillet knife that will hold an edge is something that he can't refuse. Stopping to sharpen a knife part way through the filleting is frustrating to say the least. Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Roth Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Kris, just thought I would let you know. Just finished quenching tonight and the blade is in the oven tempering right now. It survived with no pings, warps, or torques in it. I took the blade to 600 grit finish, coated with a thin layer of satanite to cut down on scale, triple normalized, and quenched in parks 50. Originally I thought about using peanut oil but decided to go for broke. I tried something new, not sure if it helped, but don't think it could have hurt. I have a chile forge single burner. Since I was paranoid about overheating such a thin tip I had an epiphany. I didn't want the flame to hit the blade directly, and I wanted to soak the blade at temp at least 3 minutes, so I put a 2" tube of mild steel in the forge and let it come up to temp, then held the blade vertically, spine up inside the tube. The heat was radiated fairly evenly, the tip didn't overheat, and I was able to soak it pretty uniformly. Results speak for themselves. I don't know if anyone else does this. Steel is my canvas, a hammer my brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bower Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I tried something new, not sure if it helped, but don't think it could have hurt. I have a chile forge single burner. Since I was paranoid about overheating such a thin tip I had an epiphany. I didn't want the flame to hit the blade directly, and I wanted to soak the blade at temp at least 3 minutes, so I put a 2" tube of mild steel in the forge and let it come up to temp, then held the blade vertically, spine up inside the tube. The heat was radiated fairly evenly, the tip didn't overheat, and I was able to soak it pretty uniformly. Results speak for themselves. I don't know if anyone else does this. Tai Goo does the same thing, except of course that he uses charcoal as the heat source. He also puts some bits of charcoal in the pipe to create a reducing atmosphere. He very nearly eliminates scaling that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 Tate, Thanks for sharing your results. I've got one of teh test blades in ready for heat. I too added a bit of satanite to it to reduce scaling. I was planning on using 1" pipe to do the same thing you did. I'm glad to hear it worked for you. I'll hope it works for me as well. I plan to make 4 test blades. I figure after trhee of them, I should be able to get it pretty close to where I want it for the heat treating....the 4th blade I want to see what I can get i nthe way of a differential hardening line. My gues is that the result will be poor at best, but I'd like to give it a try and see what happens. Thanks again for sharing your results. Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Roth Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Good to hear others think the tube is a practical solution. Good luck on your go, I'm sure you'll do fine. The reason I went with a 2" pipe, other than the fact I had some around , was I held it up to be sure no part of the blade touched the pipe. Steel is my canvas, a hammer my brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 Good thinking. I was planning to set the blade in the tube and let it come up to temp. It probably is a better idea to keep it from contacting the pipe. I'll scrounge around my scrap bin for some larger pipe. I'm sure I've got something in there that will work for me. Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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