Summers last wootz

[Niko Hynninen]

Hi All

 

 

Here we go agane.

 

I managet to get nice amount of materials for wootz and now it was first run whit these

materials.

 

I havent run furnace 2,5 month and had little difficult to get started.

 

Plan was to make two similar charges.

Material were pig iron + iron flakes+ clear glass.

Total mass 2150g x2 ( per ingot)

 

Here is pics

 

 

 

 

Materials

 

Pig iron

 

nro I

 

nro I / top shrinkage+ some porosity

 

nro II in crucible right nro I

 

Glass top nro II

 

Nro II

 

Nro I marco...fast cooling no dendrites in side ( if not looked in right angel...small dendrites)

Cementite may be bit curly parts ( spark is good)

I but this ingot in furnace over night whit nro II so stucrute of ingot is not raw.

 

 

Nro II also faster cooling...Same dendtites seen from angel but dirrect grain and cementite needles.

 

 

Pit of top hat effect in both...used crucibles has previous erosion in side the wall and I think it act as an mold??

Erosion is guite stong!!

 

Why fast coolig...

I have one ingot that i forge in to bar..."II fruit" in bloomer and buttons topic, if interested.

It has bold pattern..so..

 

Could it be that if we have ingot that has C% wootz rate...faster cooling rate dosent form dendrites...and we have all

ready ingot that has austenite grain + cementite + cementie in side the grain....

Maby we dont nessesary have to make diffusion heating to get rid of dendrites.

So is the dendrites even key to patter?? I think no, right alloys, HT cycles and forging may be more effective.

 

Im not sure how many of wootz makers look at raw ingot stucture...structure after diffusion heating...structure after one or several roasting cycles.

I have learned lots of how steel acts looking structure at different states.

Like raw ingot dendrites...and after diffusion heating.

HT Cycles douring forging.

 

BR

 

Niko

Edited September 30, 2010 by Niko Hynninen

[Greg Thomas Obach]

Hi Niko

 

good to see your back in the driver seat !

- funny how life can be so much better when your melting steel

 

both ingots look to be top shape...

 

when you say that they were quickly cooled... does that mean that they were just air cooled ?

 

i'm excited to see how you make out with these... ... maybe figure out how to " Pringle pattern " the barstock...

 

 

how was the color of the slag ontop...

 

Greg

[Niko Hynninen]

Hi Greg

 

 

Thanks.

 

In both slag is green/grey...I think all most same as previous runs.

 

I run first one 15 min and turned gar/air off...then let it cool to yellow and tooked it out ..air...bit windy.

Second I run same ...but lef it in side furnace over night....it has bigger dendrites all over out side...but not that

easy to see from in. Both have dendrites but its realy hard to see...in one angle yo just see them.

But mostly is " Widmanstätten + grain boundrary cement" ...me thinks

 

If I compare these to previous runs...whit dendrites in side....cooling rate liquidus to solid if totally faster.

 

I sure hope that I can find something new...and reasons how and why

 

 

I continue tomorrow.

 

BR

 

Niko

[Jan Ysselstein]

Niko

 

Niko,

 

I believe both the slow and fast cooled ingots will form dendrites on cooling. Under some conditions the carbon migration is fast enough to change the appearance of the structure. The underlying grid ("the master pattern" of the wootz) is in place, regardles of the cooling rate.

 

The experiment is a good idea, my "Best Wootz Ever" was quick cooled but the ingot (fragment) was too small to get the results I wanted. However now that someone has found the Persian process why are you even bothering, why not just watch (I think I got that from Peter Sellers as Chauncey Gardiner).

 

Good luck Niko, I will join you again this winter in the wootz game.

Jan

Edited August 16, 2009 by Jan Ysselstein

[Cyrus]

Niko,

 

good that you start your experiments. I like number 2, there is already some swirls in the structure, I like it. Now try to forge them out and make lots of pictures.

 

All the best, Cyrus

[Jeff Pringle]

Those are some good looking ingots!

[Niko Hynninen]

Thanks Guys

 

 

 

I did some hard forging and method that I used was totally different than ever before.

HT cycles before forging I did yesterday and initial forging today...now I have tow bars

~ Nro I 25x40x300 and Nro II 35x35x300

 

Nro I had two deep porosity holes, and I tryed to work whit those in bitter end...but I think I haveto cut ingot half..after all.

..BUT i have one grazy idea, and I try it tomorow....I post it..anyways IF it dosent work.

 

Here is pic todays forging.

 

 

Nro I stucture before forging

 

Nro II stucture before forging

 

Nro I left and II right

 

Nro II

 

Nro I porosity crack...

 

Nro I

 

Nro I

 

Nro II

 

Nro II

 

Top I

 

Top II

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

BR

 

Niko

Edited September 30, 2010 by Niko Hynninen

[Jeff Pringle]

I think your new materials make good ingots!

[Dmitry.M]

Very nice looking steel Niko! Congratulations.

[Greg Thomas Obach]

yessir .... that is very nice

 

Niko... if you can keep the top porosity in the center... of the bar... then it will be in the spine of the blade... and that is what many antique blades have... .. they'll also pound a soft iron wire into the crack to hide the porosity...... I've seen it alot... especially when you restore a blade it becomes obvious..

actually...i'm holding 2 tulwars at the moment and both have this..

 

 

by the way.....pattern is looking good

 

Greg

[Cyrus]

Hi Niko,

 

very nice steel that you are working on. I whish you best of luck to get some very nice patterns. Please continue.

 

Regards, Cyrus

[Niko Hynninen]

Hi Guys.

 

Thank you all for the boost, kind words...all.

It means a lot...its not enough word even at this point.

 

Im not sure but just maby, I have find something that will be ....least in my mind...Simply mind blowing

...at least its that to me

 

Ok..

 

Today I forge Nro II just two cycles...so nothign to report on that one.

 

 

But Nro I....this porosity ingot..

 

Im not sure is it big thing...or just nothing...but even I had guite nasty porosity in middle...that I indeed forge close...

Now its Gone...

But even Greg said ..its ok..it some how makes me bite my tongue...sorry Greg, I cant help my self!

 

I wanted long bar...so I did not wanto cut it in half...I made something different...and now,

I have full lenght bar in my hand...that has guite promising pattern..im so happy that I managet to work this out..this was a milestone for me..and it opens up lots of different ideas too.

 

I in deed promised to tell what happend...but I need to download and resize lots of pics first...but here is something

 

Agane....fire at will...thoughts in

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BR

 

Niko

Edited September 30, 2010 by Niko Hynninen

[Dmitry.M]

You may have forge welded the porosity. It is not easy to weld wootz and keep the pattern, but some people managed to do that.

To what temperature you heat when forge? I mean what color was the billet? Yellow, orange, red?

[Niko Hynninen]

Hi Dmitry.

 

 

I did not weld the porosity raw ingot it was 2x20mm deep ( tryed it whit mig wire...might bean longer...??) and I think this is the most ingteresting part of this all...like I said milestone for me.

 

I reduce pics soon and it shows how I made it.....And heads up..I dont recomend this...HI risk of ruin the ingot...or some of it

 

Day was good lesson of heat and force

 

Niko

Edited August 19, 2009 by Niko Hynninen

[Dmitry.M]

May i ask you one more time about the same...

What was the color of the billet or ingot when you were forging it?

[Niko Hynninen]

Hi.

 

Dmitry, you may!

 

Colour was orange.

 

 

 

...and here is how I salvage porosity ingot to full lenght.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..and Nro II i think did had just bit higher C ( bit longer in crucible) and Kill was not success...microporosity..in side the cementite

...and my initial forging temp may have beam just over to this...so looks like bar is full off small cracks that show douring grinding.

There is patter, sort ....so I try forge it out if it holds in on piece...if not..Another learnig point.

 

 

 

 

 

Niko

Edited September 30, 2010 by Niko Hynninen

[Jeff Pringle]

Nice save, Niko

You are too cool!

[Niko Hynninen]

Thanks Jeff

 

Is was guite cool to find a way to salvage whole ingot.

 

Forge bar full lenght cycles..and here is results

 

 

 

 

 

 

Niko

Edited September 30, 2010 by Niko Hynninen

[Dmitry.M]

Now I need to catch the fast train or I'll be too late... Congrats Niko!

[Niko Hynninen]

Here is some pic of this blank of wootz...

 

 

 

 

 

I used Stainless steel paste as etch...it is harder to steel...and im not sure is it good to wootz etch after all...

It can make small holes...

 

I ad my finger as skale....I find that its guite difficult to say

how big or small pattern is....I hoe this "finger" helps to see.

 

Now is this small,medium,large????

 

I re etch it tomorow and show how it look like Nital....Its totally different.

 

BR

 

Niko

Edited September 30, 2010 by Niko Hynninen

[Jan Ysselstein]

Thanks Guys

 

 

 

I did some hard forging and method that I used was totally different than ever before.

HT cycles before forging I did yesterday and initial forging today...now I have tow bars

~ Nro I 25x40x300 and Nro II 35x35x300

 

Nro I had two deep porosity holes, and I tryed to work whit those in bitter end...but I think I haveto cut ingot half..after all.

..BUT i have one grazy idea, and I try it tomorow....I post it..anyways IF it dosent work.

 

Here is pic todays forging.

 

 

Nro I stucture before forging

 

Nro II stucture before forging

 

Nro I left and II right

 

Nro II

 

Nro I porosity crack...

 

Nro I

 

Nro I

 

Nro II

 

Nro II

 

Top I

 

Top II

Thoughts?

BR

Niko

 

Niko,

Were the "before" forging pictures taken before any forging or after a little forging...and do they represent the sides, top or bottom of the ingot. I am trying to create a little library of pictures which will eventually allow me to predict the appearance of a blade based on the look of the ingot. What was your conclusion regarding these two ingots?

Jan

[Niko Hynninen]

Niko,

Were the "before" forging pictures taken before any forging or after a little forging...and do they represent the sides, top or bottom of the ingot. I am trying to create a little library of pictures which will eventually allow me to predict the appearance of a blade based on the look of the ingot. What was your conclusion regarding these two ingots?

Jan

 

Hi Jan.

 

First macro images are just after melt/cooling and next ones are after roast.

The nro I is good material but II is totally skrap...if you look at first page you

see that steel has some strange " craking, porosity,somethign"

What you think it could be??

 

My thought is that I didint use enought force douring forging and grain just didint refine enough

and maby grow too big / impuritys at grainboundary didint brake up and course that??

Also it could be graphitation??

 

Niko

[Jan Ysselstein]

NIko,

It is hard for me to tell as based on my record I have problems of my own. I have roasted some ingots and got a very quick conversion to a finer granular structure and some are slow to convert ( especially those with internal cracks resembling the layers of an onion. Heat doe not transfer well when there is nothing to conduct it..... .

 

Jan