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Something I Whipped Out


JPH
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Hello:

 

Here's a little section of a three core "Viking" blade I whipped out today in 300 series Stainless,1045 and L-6 mix for the centre core in a twist/counter-twist pattern (real easy and simple..) with a 1060 edge... The contrast came out really nice..the blade is for a client up in Oregon and is 31" long, 1 3/8" at the guard and 1 1/8" at the tip ogive....Came out A-Ok if ya ask me... Had to take a break from all that Japanese stuff I am doing for book IV for a while...now I am on the Euro stuff again...I just love my fly press for fullering...makes things soooo much easier...

 

You can't tell in the photo but the 300 series stainless just "jumps out" at you..in a very white/silver colour..I gotta learn how to take better photos..still these are a light year ahead of what I was taking before...

 

JPH

DSC00274A.jpg

Edited by JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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Very cool, sir!

 

I take it you are still defying the odds and welding stainless without a can?

 

Thanks for posting.

 

--Dave

-----------------------------------------------

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelt

http://stephensforge.com

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Dave:

 

Defying what odds? I mean there are ways you can weld stainless without having to can it...the Venerable Cleston Sinyard and I "hit on it" about the same time back in the later 1970's early 1980's..(boy I am getting old)... Mr Sinyard, for some reason has simply NOT been given the credit he so richly deserves when it comes to bladesmithing. He was doing all sorts of "weird stuff" as far as can welding way before it "hit"...I remember seeing a blade he made out of old nuts, bolts, nails, HC steel lathe swarf and anything else he could fit in there and welded it all up...

 

Same goes for Tim Zowada...another truly talented man....yet here again, not given the credit he deserves....

 

So for me to be "defying the odds" cause I can weld stainless without using a "can"...not hardly..you just have to know how..and it isn't all that easy but it is far from being all that hard...you just got to know how...

 

JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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looks like she is gonna be a nice blade when you finish her.. thanks for sharing.

 

chris.

i could complain but who would listen.

 

chris.

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Jim,

Just one look at that blade steel and I could tell you were it's author. It's interesting how one's stlye becomes so obvious over time.

As to the stainless thing: Okay, how is it done outa the can??

I've tried all kinds of welding of odd stuff, most of it successful. If you flux it enough, fold it plenty and generally just keep mashin' and smackin' it around, you're gonna get somethin out of it eventually, but clean precise structures with multi billet components, well that's another thing altogether, ain't it?

So... spill it, please...Enquiring minds and all.

Edited by jdsmith02115
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JDS:

 

Welding stainless outside of a can is a little complicated and tricky...but too complicated to explain here...you need the right flux plus a few other things added in....I may be putting this in book IV..or I might not..all depends upon how big the book will be...

 

As far as patterns go..it is all patience. DO NOT RUSH things and be as careful as you can in counting the twists and all that. Knowing how much the steel needs to "stretch" and all is also part of it and that also needs to be added to the equation.... This is where experience comes in..

 

Now on the Euro stuff...I and others have figured out that the "old guys" must of welded up their composite bars almost in the finished length due to the fact that the twists are so tight in a lot of the pieces/finished blades. Us "modern guys" tend to weld a little more thick and a little short and then draw that out...stretching the "twist" and elongating the pattern...the "bane" of the power hammer I guess.. I am still experiemneting with near at length pieces as well as several different ways to egde the "Hair pin". I usually just wrap the whole magilla and weld it on from the tip back...It's nerve wracking but works...the two piece method also works but it can bugger up the pattern if done inproperly..(then again so can the one piece if you aren't careful enough)...From X-rays I can see that both one piece and two piece edges were being done..Two piece edging can be a bit easier but some of the pattern flows I have seen require a one piece edge to do...they both work...

 

All in all....it's just a matter of patience and experience. There are still alot of folks that believe that you cannot "forge stainless", why this is I have no idea. I am one of the few smiths out there that doesn't give stainless steel a "bad rap"..if used in the proper application it is a great material..

 

JPH

Edited by JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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I'm guessing that it has to do with cleanliness, temperatures and flux. I'm guessing some boric acid added to the borax to help coat at a lower temperature and having read some of Jim's writings I'm guessing some fluorspar. I know that fluorspar is used as a smelting flux, and I'm guessing it's more aggressive than borax on some of the oxides formed in forging, but I know little else about it. Is there any flux additive that can cut chromium oxides? I don't know of any, so I'm guessing you need something that melts at a low temp (like the boric acid)to coat the 300-series steel before it has a chance to oxidize.

 

Am I close Jim? :)

 

-d

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JDS:

 

Welding stainless outside of a can is a little complicated and tricky...but too complicated to explain here...you need the right flux plus a few other things added in....I may be putting this in book IV..or I might not..all depends upon how big the book will be...

 

As far as patterns go..it is all patience. DO NOT RUSH things and be as careful as you can in counting the twists and all that. Knowing how much the steel needs to "stretch" and all is also part of it and that also needs to be added to the equation.... This is where experience comes in..

 

Now on the Euro stuff...I and others have figured out that the "old guys" must of welded up their composite bars almost in the finished length due to the fact that the twists are so tight in a lot of the pieces/finished blades. Us "modern guys" tend to weld a little more thick and a little short and then draw that out...stretching the "twist" and elongating the pattern...the "bane" of the power hammer I guess.. I am still experiemneting with near at length pieces as well as several different ways to egde the "Hair pin". I usually just wrap the whole magilla and weld it on from the tip back...It's nerve wracking but works...the two piece method also works but it can bugger up the pattern if done inproperly..(then again so can the one piece if you aren't careful enough)...From X-rays I can see that both one piece and two piece edges were being done..Two piece edging can be a bit easier but some of the pattern flows I have seen require a one piece edge to do...they both work...

 

All in all....it's just a matter of patience and experience. There are still alot of folks that believe that you cannot "forge stainless", why this is I have no idea. I am one of the few smiths out there that doesn't give stainless steel a "bad rap"..if used in the proper application it is a great material..

 

JPH

Hey Jim,

Do you remember me? We met about 14 years a go at he San Jose' show. Actually I'm good to go on the multi billet thing; done quite a bit of it actually. w

What I was refering to is the multi billet thing as applied to stainless steels and OTC(Out The Can) forge welding.

Do you remember this one? You admired it at the San Jose' show back in '95. Not my intention to hijack this thread...just to ask if you recall our meeting.

11_23_1.JPEG

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Deker:

 

you are on the right path,,,there is some boric acid as well as some fluorspar in my flux mix (it doesn't take much...but be careful with it) as well as a healthy coating of cast iron lathe swarf (from a friend's brake shop) that everything is "rolled in" the cast iron turnings....

 

Proper temp is 100% required for this to work...everything has to pretty much be welded and worked at the same temp due to the different characteristics of the SS and the HC steels. Not exactly easy but far from impossible... It's all proper technique...and a lot of practise...

 

I wouldn't try it in a coal forge, too much "crud" can be "picked up"..I use gas...Charcoal could probablo\y be used, although I have not tried it..

 

As I said before...be VERY CAREFUL when you are dealing with fluxes that contain fluorspar...the fumes can mess you up and you will be FUBAR rikki-tik. If you are using adequate ventilation you should be OK... Also it is far more aggressive when it comes to melting the lining of a gas forge...I use a sacrificial plate and kitty litter on my forge floor to catch any drips...

 

JDS:

 

I remember the meeting and that dagger...folks the photo doesn't do justice to the piece..It is one tricked out knife...very nicely done...now if it was in stainless...heh heh heh....but there was stuff going on in that pattern that you cannot see in the photo..

 

Honestly..it all just comes down with finding out what works for YOU...what works for me may not work as well for you...everyone has their own "working habits" as they say...and you have to adapt them to "fit"...

 

JPH

Edited by JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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If I get your drift here, the stainless and whatever else your forging in the mix,must be hot enough to be moving at relatively the same rate under the hammer or press so no shearing occurs? Ever any air hardening SS in the mixes? What is the cast iron doing? Is it lowering the weld point? Or soaking up O2? Is the cast iron powder, or a granular texture? Does it get included in the weld interface or is it ejected when the bond occurs?

I think if I knew what the various additives to your flux mixture were doing, it would help me to understand how this whole thing works, from a physics and chemistry standpoint.

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JDS:

 

The cast iron does two things....since it has a lower liquidus point it actually "protects" the bar in a more or less semi-liquid high C content iron...and as such, helps to facilitate the weld on several different levels/ways...

 

Now the other additives to my "steel glue" flux..which has been and will be yet again published, the iron oxide (rust) will reduce in a proper atmosphere into Fe as well, also aiding in the prevention of oxides. The real bugger is when you take it out and whack it...hit it too hard and you can blow the whole faggot apart...and not wled anything... You just have to give it a gentle little nudge with the hammer.. This is where a heavy hammer weight really comes in handy as you just "bump it" down to set the weld...let the hammer's weight do it...or you can always use a press and just give it a little squeeze to get the layers into contact..

 

On working temps...you are correct that they need to be at the point where weld shears will not start up...I have really sweated (in more ways than one) over this and it has to be pretty close to a welding heat in order to prevent shearing when you are using a SS and a HC mix if you are doing any "serious" amount of drawing at all..Twisting I do at a welding heat and as soon as it goes red I stop twisting and re-heat. Twisting is bad enough using an all HC mix, as it can really put some stress on the weld bounderies and SS isn't inclined to want to move that much unless it is H O T.

 

It all comes down to exepreince and learning from one's failures.

 

On the air hardening steels...yeah, I do use those from time to time..only when I am feeling a need for self abuse as they are a righteous PITA to work...

 

JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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JDS:

 

The cast iron does two things....since it has a lower liquidus point it actually "protects" the bar in a more or less semi-liquid high C content iron...and as such, helps to facilitate the weld on several different levels/ways...

 

Now the other additives to my "steel glue" flux..which has been and will be yet again published, the iron oxide (rust) will reduce in a proper atmosphere into Fe as well, also aiding in the prevention of oxides. The real bugger is when you take it out and whack it...hit it too hard and you can blow the whole faggot apart...and not wled anything... You just have to give it a gentle little nudge with the hammer.. This is where a heavy hammer weight really comes in handy as you just "bump it" down to set the weld...let the hammer's weight do it...or you can always use a press and just give it a little squeeze to get the layers into contact..

 

On working temps...you are correct that they need to be at the point where weld shears will not start up...I have really sweated (in more ways than one) over this and it has to be pretty close to a welding heat in order to prevent shearing when you are using a SS and a HC mix if you are doing any "serious" amount of drawing at all..Twisting I do at a welding heat and as soon as it goes red I stop twisting and re-heat. Twisting is bad enough using an all HC mix, as it can really put some stress on the weld bounderies and SS isn't inclined to want to move that much unless it is H O T.

 

It all comes down to exepreince and learning from one's failures.

 

On the air hardening steels...yeah, I do use those from time to time..only when I am feeling a need for self abuse as they are a righteous PITA to work...

 

JPH

Thank you Jim. That told me a lot!

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Hello:

 

 

Glad that helped clear things up for you....I am finishing it up today using the fittings that my client supplied so...horn grip with silver ferrules on the ends..will post a photo when it's all hammered together...

 

JPH

Edited by JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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Hello:

 

I just hilted the blade...the fittings are in bronze, in a "viking" style "twisty beastie" motif. The grip is black horn with silver ferrules at either end. The sheath will be black leather with a silver chape/locket and I am thinking either a black onyx (or if I have one laying around here a black star sapphire) for a throat stone setting.

 

Will be doing the sheath the next couple of days..once I get it all done will post some photos..

 

Hope this one come out...

 

JPH

DSC00310A.jpg

Edited by JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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Put what in my book? Most of this is already covered in my first three...Book IV will be delving into all the "deeper" stuff like grip fluting..bone processing and dying...alot on composite patterning and "Japanese" blade composite construction... (The Old Euro guys had the Japanese beat when it came to composite construction by a long shot) and a whole lotta other neat stuff....

 

JPH

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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Hello:

 

Well I went and finished the beast.

 

The leather part of the sheath is oxblood red and the chape/locket is .900 fine silver with 10K gold roping. The stone is a 48 ct red/purple star ruby and as far as the overall "package" goes well..the thing looks pretty good if you ask me..

 

I wasn't too sure about the colour combination on the black horn, the red bronze fittings, silver ferrules and gold trimmed silver chape/locket..but the star ruby and the oxblood red of the leather just "ties everything together" quite nicely, at least to me.

 

The only "down side" to this is that this was a custom order that the person who ordered it wasn't able to fulfill on so...Up on the web site if goes here shortly. Oh well..at least the deposit covered the precious metals and the ruby...

 

I don't seem too get many cancellations as far as orders go (thankfully so...) so I guess the website is the place for this to be until someone finds it and decides they can't live without it..

 

Hope these photos come out..I am no photographer in any sense of the word...

 

 

JPH

DSC00331A.jpg

If you wish to know the price of freedom..Visit a Veteran's Hospital...I am humbled by their sacrifice... 

Why is it when the Mighty Thor throws his hammer he is dispensing Justice and fighting Evil..BUT..when I throw my hammer I wind up in a mandatory 16 week anger management course??</p>

I came into this world naked, screaming and covered in someone else's blood...I have no problem going out the same way...

 

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