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Niko Hynninen

Tatara / tamahagane

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Thanks Guys.

 

I try to keep this project runnig...but it will be slow, Sorry :(

I would have to make new sidedraft forge and use only charcoal...I think coal or coke is bad for

tamahagane.

 

BR

Niko

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Niko,

 

Do you have any line drawings of your Tatara design?

Edited by Greg H.

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niko did you consider using clay/Si for the aeria around the bloom and a brick clay/Si skelleton for the stack. the clay/Si in the skelleton would act like moter and the brick would be a support structer and reduce the amount of clay/Si needed. that may alow for some movement in the bloom aera while still using brick. just a thought

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Moikka Niko,

 

how did this project go on? Did you manage to homogenize the piece and forge it into a bar or even into a small blade?

Achim used pine for the charcoal in his big tatara this summer:

http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=86207

they had the oportunity to use over 3 tons of high quality pine-charcoal and 1,3 tons of high qual (over 66% Fe) ore from southern africa, because Lohmann Steel corp from Witten Herbede sponsored the whole thing - they took out a chunk of nearly 400kg most of it was finest "tamahagane"c-steel, from which they formed a big piece, after nine foldings they had a steel with 0,46%C which was very "clean"

C = 0,46 % Si = 0,06 % Mn = 0,005 % P = 0,02 % S = 0,0009 % (!)

I have had the chance to be there when they broke the oven open and forged the smelt, "big theater" great to watch

 

kovasti terveisiä

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Moikka Niko,

 

how did this project go on? Did you manage to homogenize the piece and forge it into a bar or even into a small blade?

Achim used pine for the charcoal in his big tatara this summer:

http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=86207

they had the oportunity to use over 3 tons of high quality pine-charcoal and 1,3 tons of high qual (over 66% Fe) ore from southern africa, because Lohmann Steel corp from Witten Herbede sponsored the whole thing - they took out a chunk of nearly 400kg most of it was finest "tamahagane"c-steel, from which they formed a big piece, after nine foldings they had a steel with 0,46%C which was very "clean"

C = 0,46 % Si = 0,06 % Mn = 0,005 % P = 0,02 % S = 0,0009 % (!)

I have had the chance to be there when they broke the oven open and forged the smelt, "big theater" great to watch

 

kovasti terveisiä

 

Jokke,

That is an amazingly clean steel. Is there some wootz from this steel coming down the pipe? If so, I am very anxious to see it. That was quite a furnace and I have a lot of respect for the group that pulled that one off. After all, even if someone else is paying the bill..iron still has to be made.

Jan

Edited by Jan Ysselstein

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Moikka Niko,

 

how did this project go on? Did you manage to homogenize the piece and forge it into a bar or even into a small blade?

Achim used pine for the charcoal in his big tatara this summer:

http://www.messerfor...ead.php?t=86207

they had the oportunity to use over 3 tons of high quality pine-charcoal and 1,3 tons of high qual (over 66% Fe) ore from southern africa, because Lohmann Steel corp from Witten Herbede sponsored the whole thing - they took out a chunk of nearly 400kg most of it was finest "tamahagane"c-steel, from which they formed a big piece, after nine foldings they had a steel with 0,46%C which was very "clean"

C = 0,46 % Si = 0,06 % Mn = 0,005 % P = 0,02 % S = 0,0009 % (!)

I have had the chance to be there when they broke the oven open and forged the smelt, "big theater" great to watch

 

kovasti terveisiä

 

Moikka Moi Jokke.

 

Sorry to say but its guite slow at moment :(

 

The test piece that is shown here is one and so far its only piece from this kera.

Skope pic that I have here shows C 1,5% and its folded about 10 just to get it slag free as possible, so its quite pure ultra hi carbon steel..

Even so it still has small amount of slag in it...but just right amout of slag is your friend in tamahagane or in final blade.

 

I have not yet forge out of this 40kg kera...But I do have some plans for whole kera, some time at abroad give me lots of ideas how to proper work whit this steel.

 

New tatara plans and build is on the way...i try to run more ore next time and to get more consolidate kera same time + zuku for other projekt.

 

 

Kiitos, ja terveisiä takaisin :D

 

Niko

Edited by Niko Hynninen

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@ Jan,

sorry, but I do not know whether Achim Wirtz has made some Wootz with this charge,(most of it went to the guy from tchecheslowakia who makes excellent swords from tamahagane, Pavel Rihacek) but Achim uses his own "rennofen"-smelted material quite often. By the way, he sells steel, too and one of my favorite is his C145 SC, superclean stuff made for him here in Germany :excl:

I am going to use the iron we smelted at Kleinenbremen as soon as spring has arrived again, one try came up with lots of little holes and cracks in it, probably due to the sulfur-content. My friend asked me for a hypoeutectoid bladematerial to be able to make a knife with ore and steel from his homeregion (5 miles away!)- he does not love wootz, it gave him the creeps trying to forge it :rolleyes: and I want to make some wootzystuff from the rest.

@ Niko,

mihin sä menet ulkomaahan, saadan uutta ideoita?! (where does he go to get new ideas-I am curious!)

pine is Finish Mänty - say, do you use pine for the charcoal? It should be easily available in Finland, birch should not be as good?! And 40 kg is a big hump of iron and steel- I would like to see your backyard B)

I should come over in summertime to see what a wootzsmelt with it would look like, if you ever feel like having "foreign" visitors (juu ne ulkolaiset :lol: )

 

terveiset! (4all friends. terveisiä is Finish for Greetings and best wishes, the form I use here is simply: greetzes! Moi or Moikka is a usual form to say Hi and funny enough Goodbye also - I love it!)

Edited by Jokke

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@ Niko,

mihin sä menet ulkomaahan, saadan uutta ideoita?! (where does he go to get new ideas-I am curious!)

pine is Finish Mänty - say, do you use pine for the charcoal? It should be easily available in Finland, birch should not be as good?! And 40 kg is a big hump of iron and steel- I would like to see your backyard B)

I should come over in summertime to see what a wootzsmelt with it would look like, if you ever feel like having "foreign" visitors (juu ne ulkolaiset :lol: )

 

Jokke

 

Last year i was invited to Japan, 5 weeks studing, forging,and learnig more about this graft.

So some new ideas form roots of this graft, steel making and forging I was able to pic up.

 

Pine would be good choice, but last time i used birch. I think pine is not that good in forge sens it pops and flyes all over the forge..and greates guite lot of dust.Birch dosent do that and burns better, maby BTU is lower but is good charcoal. However its more expesive than pine.I need to build retor to make my own charcoal, sens its realy expensive in here, about 1e / kg??

 

Yep, if you feel like coming over your welcome. However now Im in that sad position that I dont have forge my own :(

But wootz melt or smelter is different thing..It only needs some space and electricity.

 

 

Moikka ;)

Niko

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Moi Niko,

I agree that birchcharcoal in the forge is nicer in burning, but when it comes to rennfurnaces, pine should be better - we had used beech (pyökki) in our oven and it was expensiv, so I think making your own is a good idea - saw a film about an old guy in Lapland making pitch (resin - terva) and charcoal, he simply used an old barrel (upside down) stuffed it with pine, build a fire around it and let that burn down, it made a bucket of pitch and that barrel of nice looking charcoal, maybe that's an idea

 

if I come by car, we'll see what is possible

 

heippa

Edited by Jokke

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Well done smelt Niko,

Did you spend the time in Japan with Mr. Akira Kihara?

 

Ric

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Thanks Ric.

 

Its not bad :lol:

I didint visit Mr. Akira Kihara, but hopefully maby some

day I will...you never know were the life takes you ^_^

Real big tatara would be nice to see and to run

 

Niko

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