MDF Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Recently in history section we discussed about some Romans knives whit bronze hilt, in a photo posted by Peter Johnsson (many thanks Peter) I see a beautiful Roman bronze handle. I was very fascinated by these knives for a long time and so I decided to made one. In this post I will describe my way for a reproduction of a lost wax bronze hilt, hoping it will be interesting. The project is based on 3 images: one unknown (very consumed hilt), the handle finding in Ruxox and image kindly published by Peter Johnsson. The first operation was to prepare the metal for the blade. I used wrouht iron whit 1070 core. ok, now the more complicated work: the handle making in lost wax method. I decided to use a very hard wax. I draw the profile of the handle and start working on wax using press drill, saw and files. when the profile is done i realize the room for the blade. Well, now start the long task of finishing the neck with file from models, this is a long job! when the handle is complete wash it very well in cold water and start the lost wax operations. Now i prepare the flask, use a vacum machine to avoid bubbles in the investment, in similar models is very important. The second image show the coal forge used to smelt bronze. I place the hot flask in vacum machine and cast bronze, sorry but I have not images of the cast in the flask because are very excited and fast phases. OK, now the magic moment, put the flask in cold water and slowly pull out the model ... all perfect! now i'am very busy at university :angry: soon the next step CIAO FROM ITALY Marco Di Francesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Bravo! I can't wait to see the finished piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenon Rain. Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I didn't know the romans had vacume casters... that's my jealousy at you having one showing through.. this will be cool cant wait to see the progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsmith02115 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Damn!!! what an interesting project...fantastic man. Back to the future, for sure.Next installment, please, soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter johnsson Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I will enjoy seeing this enfold! Feeling an itch to try something similar myself. ...There are some gothic folders that are very nice and begging for a reinterpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athanor Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks for showing all that love this Dirk Bourguignon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I will enjoy seeing this enfold! Hehehe good one Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeacock Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I'm very excited to see the rest of this come together. I"m rather impressed so far. Thanks for sharing. Have you ever thought about the life of steel? It's interesting to think that you can control the fate of a piece of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Nice project, thanks for taking the time to photograph and share. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks you very much guys! I am happy. I love ancient reproductions and finally after a long time to learn the technique of lost wax casting, I can create works in bronze. I didn't know the romans had vacume casters... that's my jealousy at you having one showing through.. this will be cool cant wait to see the progress. Kenon, I do not know Roman vacum machine, but I assure you that my equipment is very basic and improvised...glass that you see is a jar of my grandmother's pickles In this photo you can see my homemade vacum machine I use it for debulizer investment and casting bronze. I will enjoy seeing this enfold! Feeling an itch to try something similar myself. ...There are some gothic folders that are very nice and begging for a reinterpretation Peter, I am very curious, I do not know these gothic folders, you have additional information? Nice project, thanks for taking the time to photograph and share. I'm glad Mr. Fogg thanks, during my work I always shot a lot of photos. I like to review the stages of my work. Generally in this forum I am talking with many pictures and few words because my English is very bad...sorry CIAO FROM ITALY Marco Di Francesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter johnsson Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Marco, I shall locate the images and post them on a separate thread. As is often the case with me, the gothic folder was an urge I had during a period some years back but never got opportunity (took action) to actually make one. With you following through and making this roman folder, perhaps I´ll get a good kick in my behind and do something about the gothic ones . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Well, a new update. The first operation after the lost wax process is to cut the sprue and smoothing the model with very fine file. then I created the hole for the ring, I suppose the ring in second and third photo was iron and not bronze as the first because it disappeared as the blade. Now I clean with scotch-brite and polished the model with cotton wheel. I decided to polish the edges because they were too sharp for an ancient reproduction. Mirror finish is bad, but thereafter it will be patinated Ok, 90% of the handle is finished, now I begin to work the blade. For the shape I am based on the knife in the first image. I realize a wood model because it is easier to understand the dimensions...open and close! When the model is excellent transcribe the shape on the metal (wrought iron and 1070 core) and finally the blade is ready for grinding. CIAO FROM ITALY Marco Di Francesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Maresca Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Excellent work Marco, I'm glad to see that your project is going so well. I'm impressed from the quality of your casting! Mourir pour des idées, c'est bien beau mais lesquelles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsmith02115 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm getting excited to see this one done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sheffield Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) It's cool don't get me wrong, but all I see is a dog sniffing another dogs butt...But holy crap did that cast come out awesome! Edited October 20, 2009 by Mike Sheffield My life is like shaving with a razor sharp machete. It's a bit awkward and I feel a sting every now and then, but in the end I'm happy with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It's cool don't get me wrong, but all I see is a dog sniffing another dogs butt...But holy crap did that cast come out awesome! Me too COOL PROJECT, is there any sort of retaining spring? Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Ysselstein Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 k Marco, Thank you very much for sharing this project and the methods. This is a great tutorial and beautiful work. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thank you again guys, I have been busy these days to study, however the blade is 90% complete, I hope to finish the blade this weekend and post new results. @Mike and Sam, no problem Sam, no, no spring is provided, the handle is a monolithic piece of bronze and work as a normal friction folder. The more difficulty will set it perfect. CIAO FROM ITALY Marco Di Francesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Well, the knife is almost finished. These are the new pictures, I'm sorry for the quality, the colors are not very good. I finish the blade and mirror polished, ready for etching operations in FC. This is my first time with this wrought iron, I ecth it 2 times and surprise...i see a good pattern! After the etching I clean the blade with fine iron whool and oil, now the pattern is completely visible and the blade is finally finished Now the patina on bronze handle. This is very similar at etching steel. I use liver of sulfur diluted in water works very well and is very fast. Degrease well the bronze in soda and dip it in a very dilute solution, the process is very fast, about 5-10 seconds. Also the handle is ready The last component is 2 "bronzine" (sorry but I do not know their name in English) i using 0.1mm brass plate. Are necessary for a perfect retaining and fluid blade. I do not know if they are historically correct, but I know that Romans has ball bearings for their "ballista" ... maybe they knew that too OK, the knife is almost finished, I inserted the axle steel but I need a smaller ball-pein hammer, mine is too big. Next i made the iron ring... if I'm able i use a metal very very "special" for this...soon CIAO FROM ITALY Marco Di Francesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenon Rain. Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 that is very cool, I'm enjoying the proccess, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Marco, seeing it in your hands, it is quite big! Beautiful work, the patination of the bronze is beautiful, It is fantastic to see an old design of knife as it would have come out brand new from the ancient knifemaker's shop. Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Beautiful! Thank you for documenting the process. Those little things you call "bronzine" are called "washers" in English. I wondered what the bearing surface would be between the blade and the bronze, if there would be any washers or something like that. Thanks for that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Maresca Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Great looking result Marco, I'm glad that everything went so well. The WI pattern is stunning! Mourir pour des idées, c'est bien beau mais lesquelles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james G. Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Great work , The pattern of wrought is realy nice, so it the casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEzell Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Inspiring thread, wonderful knife. The patinas of the blade and bronze are beautiful together. We shall call this the 'dog sniffing dog' pattern Roman folder... George Ezell, bladesmith" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."Buffonview some of my work RelicForge on facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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