Shadow smith Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Ive got a few questions about Hamon.the first is Will ordinary clay work?the second is Will the hamon pattern go away if sanded or scratched and the last by not least question is What steel commonly found will bring out a good and clear hamon.any answers that help are great appretiated Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNeckLeftie Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hi Shadow, It is my understanding than plain, natural clay most often does not work by itself. As I recall, some have had good luck with terra cotta, but more usual suspects require additional elements such as ash, charcoal (activated carbon), and/or several other concoctions. Here in the states, satanite or Rutland's cement seem to be the best candidates, as they do not fall off in the forge or quench (the bane of standard clays). Steels that readily produce hamon are generally low hardenability steels (low in Manganese [< 0.7%], and low in Chromium [< 5%]). This rules out any high-alloy or stainless steels. Pretty much leaves us with basic carbon-alloy steels (AISI 10xx, W1, W2). Even though some 10xx steels have up to 0.9% Mn, they can be normalized sufficiently to reduce hardenability to produce hamon, albeit less dramatically. A really "common" steel that will work is AISI 1050 (German DIN 1.210--don't have any "EN" standards info at hand). If sanded or scratched, hamons will temporarily "go away," but can be retrieved with re-polishing. The hamon (or hardening line) is actually a crystal-structure effect in the steel, not just a surface phenomenom. Thanks, Brian K. Rogue Amateur and Weekend Hobbyist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 A really "common" steel that will work is AISI 1050.Is there any other name for this steel like with leaf spring its 5160 now what is 1050? Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenon Rain. Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 1050 is 1050.. its one of the 10xx steels like 1084 1070 etc.. any of those work by the way.. and if you live by a railroad trace, the big clips you find, which are a bout an inch square and shaped like a J are often 1070 or something around there. they take a nice hamon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 1050 is 1050.. its one of the 10xx steels like 1084 1070 etc.. any of those work by the way.. and if you live by a railroad trace, the big clips you find, which are a bout an inch square and shaped like a J are often 1070 or something around there. they take a nice hamon So what is 1050 normaly used as?the reason im asking is because the people dont know what i mean when i talk about 1050 steel,they say what the heck is 1050.i know leaf spring is 5160 and nickel is 15n20 but 1050 i dont know yet Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenon Rain. Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think railroad track is often 1050 or something close to it. not all steels are anything besides knives or edged tools too.. anyone you talk to on here will know what the 10xx steels are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think railroad track is often 1050 or something close to it. not all steels are anything besides knives or edged tools too.. anyone you talk to on here will know what the 10xx steels are yes but if i wanna go order a few pieces at the engineering store here,i dont know what to ask for because they dont know what 1050 is. Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenon Rain. Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Makes sense, I'm fairly sure railroad track is often 1050 or 1045 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam D. Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Visit your local junk yard most truck leaf springs are 5160 and you should be able to buy broken ones real cheap. Sam Duckworth http://flyfishingattheriver.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Visit your local junk yard most truck leaf springs are 5160 and you should be able to buy broken ones real cheap. im not talking about leaf spring,haha ive got too much of that,what im saying is the srap dealers and steel shops dont know what 1050 is.also i heard that rail road track here is mild steel with a layer of very hard stuff. Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Will coil spring bring out a good hamon? Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi Knives Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Will coil spring bring out a good hamon? Not sure what coil spring is. I have had older leaf springs that have been simple carbon as well. If I were you, I would purchace some W-1 drill rod from MSC. You can get some SPECTACULAR hamons out of W-1. You can get away with water but I have had great sucess using cheap olive oil. I use furnace cement mixed up with firescale for a mask, It has worked every time for me. -Nick Edited November 25, 2009 by Rossi Knives Let us have a dagger between our teeth, a bomb in our hands, and an infinite scorn in our hearts. B. Mussolini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenon Rain. Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 coil spring is usually the same steel as leaf spring you could get w1 cut offs here from Decker too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bower Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 It doesn't seem like you guys realize that he's in New Zealand. Ordering from MSC (or deker, unless deker happens to be in NZ) isn't really a very good option for him, although with a little leg work (hint, hint) he ought to be able to find a NZ equivalent. Shadow Smith, you might call these guys up. http://www.corusnz.com/default.asp They don't carry 1050, but they may be able to point you in the right direction. Their 1045 might also work, though that's really way down there on the very bottom of the kind-of-acceptable carbon range. I've had bed frame angle iron tested, and it came out to be 1050. But that was in the U.S., and you really need to understand that just because one leaf spring is 5160, or one bed frame is 1050, doesn't mean they all are. Not even close. If someone at the steel store doesn't know what 1050 is, you probably aren't at the right store. The "right store" may not be a place you can just walk into. The average hardware store here in the States doesn't carry anything more than mild steel, and the people who work in hardware stores here wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about if I walked in and asked for 1050. If I want to be able to pick a specific alloy of medium-, high-carbon or tool steel, I generally have to order it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same is true for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Madigan Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 In NZ or AU I think the only people who will know what 1050 is are other blade makers. I'd look for the other NZ'ers on the board and see where they find steel. They might sell you some if they have surplus. I don't bother with anyone that doesn't know knives or deal with knife makers when it comes to buying steel. Almost no else knows what steel is. As for clay, Satanite is my first choice if you can find it. Its a little rough, but it works. There are other options, one is furnace cement or muffler cement, which is black sodium silicate paste I think. It also works. Mixing your own clay is the next option. Take a look at this thread for details on that: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14650&view=&hl=experiments&fromsearch=1 It's one of my favorite threads for info on clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 In NZ or AU I think the only people who will know what 1050 is are other blade makers. I'd look for the other NZ'ers on the board and see where they find steel. They might sell you some if they have surplus. I don't bother with anyone that doesn't know knives or deal with knife makers when it comes to buying steel. Almost no else knows what steel is. As for clay, Satanite is my first choice if you can find it. Its a little rough, but it works. There are other options, one is furnace cement or muffler cement, which is black sodium silicate paste I think. It also works. Mixing your own clay is the next option. Take a look at this thread for details on that: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14650&view=&hl=experiments&fromsearch=1 It's one of my favorite threads for info on clay jee thanxs man if i knew muffler cement would work i wouldnt have asked,ive got a tub somewhere here,haha i should have known it will work.as for 1050 steel or W1 i dont wanna buy any i just wanna know what things are usualy made out off 1050 or W1 so if i do come across one ill know what it could be and take it. Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Langston Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Ive got a few questions about Hamon.the first is Will ordinary clay work?the second is Will the hamon pattern go away if sanded or scratched and the last by not least question is What steel commonly found will bring out a good and clear hamon.any answers that help are great appretiated gday shadowsmith, i no wat ya are saying we have the same problem in oz ,nobody carries 10xx steels other than 1045 in australia its not used any more,water quenching steels left our shores long ago and only the high alloy modern steels live here now .mate i have been chasing this dog for a few years now and its a bitch john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Madigan Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Have you tried Japan at all? Get some Hitachi Super Blue #1! They make a lot of really high quality steel for blades. They also produce a lot of the tamahagane used in Japan. I'd trade my left ear for a bit of that stuff. http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod19/p19_13.html here's their tool steel catalog: http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod19/pdf/yss_tool_steels_b.pdf just noticed they have a Chicago office. gonna have to give them a buzz.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Have you tried Japan at all? Get some Hitachi Super Blue #1! They make a lot of really high quality steel for blades. They also produce a lot of the tamahagane used in Japan. I'd trade my left ear for a bit of that stuff. http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod19/p19_13.html here's their tool steel catalog: http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod19/pdf/yss_tool_steels_b.pdf just noticed they have a Chicago office. gonna have to give them a buzz.. thanx 4 the pointer but im not out the buy steal. Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Stier Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I have not seen her around in a while but you might want to get in touch with a member named Dee, She is in AU and very nice lady to speak with. her site seems to be offline at the moment but here is her member profile. http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showuser=20500 Practice random acts of Viking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow smith Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 I have not seen her around in a while but you might want to get in touch with a member named Dee, She is in AU and very nice lady to speak with. her site seems to be offline at the moment but here is her member profile. http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showuser=20500 um i dont know what im suposed to ask her? Patients is the key to sucsess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now