Jump to content

yet another freakin seax topic


omalley

Recommended Posts

so finally got the grind work and carving done on this. still needs heat treat, more updates when i actually get crap done. expecting sheath will be a nightmare.

 

IMG_3013.jpg

 

IMG_3017.jpg

 

the handle is basically made, and the bolster just needs drilled out and polished (wrought iron/ash). i'm thinking the sheath is going to be the hardest thing for me to do on this blade.

"Whats the point of women? I've got knives, they're just as pretty and I don't need to buy them dinner to get them out of their sheath"

http://omalleyblades.weebly.com/available-blades.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the direction where this blade is going. Very nice nice shape! Subtle lines. This can be a real beauty. What´s the dimensions?

 

oh, sorry. knew i forgot something. 9.5" blade length, 5.5" tang, 1.125" blade width at base, 3/16" thick at spine

"Whats the point of women? I've got knives, they're just as pretty and I don't need to buy them dinner to get them out of their sheath"

http://omalleyblades.weebly.com/available-blades.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

One of the problems I've run into regarding broken backed seaxes is that almost every one I've seen is a river find, and therefore impossible to date with any accuracy! This makes things a bit difficult in determining when the style first originated... I do suspect, however, that seaxes (should we call the non-English blades saxes as seax is the anglo-saxon spelling?) of that time period were very likely of the spear-pointed broadsax variety, with langsaxes starting to catch on in the last 50 years of this period, and the broken back type rare to non-existent at that time. I could be completely wrong about that though, I'm hoping Jeroen and Peter come along shortly and clarify things...

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, two things working against knowing more about saxes from this period: the dating as George mentions, and the lack of (to my knowledge) proper documentation showing the finds. There are some that I'd conservatively put in that timeframe:

 

This broadsax from the Museum of London (probably second half 7th century):

 

09170171.jpg

 

This sax, also Museum of London (probably first half 8th century):

 

09170192.jpg

 

This sax from the British Museum (probably mid 7th century):

07170112.jpg

 

Some other saxes (left probably early 8th century, right late 8th century or later:

Ancient_weapons_of_Britain_3.jpg

 

There are some differences that I've noticed between saxes in the UK and on the continent from this period:

- From the eastern boarder of the Netherlands and eastwards, broadsaxes become really big, broad and heavy. The more west you go, particularly in the UK they stay much lighter and narrow.

- On the continent, sizes become quite standarized, particularly when it comes to longsaxes in the 8th century. In the UK, lengths are all over the place. Though blades of 20cm, and longsaxes with 50cm blades seem the most important catagories at the end of the 8th century

- In the UK you see clearly an evolution of saxes getting more and more angular towards broken back saxes. I've not seen such transitional saxes on the continent, and any shorter broken back saxes on the continent seem to turn up without anything of that lenght preceding.

 

With the above, keeping in mind that I have seen far less examples from the UK then from the continent. So the picture could change when I get to learn about more finds from the UK.

Jeroen Zuiderwijk

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/barbarianmetalworking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

This sax, also Museum of London (probably first half 8th century):

 

09170192.jpg

 

 

That is still the most beautiful sax blade I've ever seen.... pointy grace, with an edge....

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

I think that you might be right on that. When the taper on the spine is hammered in the steel in that area us upset and then by evening that out you could create an area that is wider that the areas before and after it.

 

Doug

HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is some nice looking stuff, I really like seeing old seaxes.
Does anyone else notice the resemblance between broadseax in the third picture in Jeroen's post #132 (the picture with the axe head) but does anyone else notice the resemblance between that seax and Jake Powning's Dwine? I know they're both broad seaxes, but those two look almost exactly the same in blade shape.

“If you trust in yourself. . . believe in your dreams. . . and follow your star. . . you will still get beaten by the people who have spent their time working hard and learning things, the people who weren't so lazy.” ~ Terry Pratchett

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It is a stunning blade and in beautiful condition. Is it just me or does the spine rise before the drop? 

A couple of years back, while my forge was down and I was somewhat bored, I made a 3d model of that blade based off of another image of it. I recall that the spine has just a hint of 's' curve, just barely... if any line on a seax appears straight, check it with a straight edge... going from photographs, I haven't found a perfectly straight line on one yet.

 

 

Does anyone else notice the resemblance between broadseax in the third

picture in Jeroen's post #132 (the picture with the axe head) but does

anyone else notice the resemblance between that seax and Jake Powning's

Dwine? I know they're both broad seaxes, but those two look almost

exactly the same in blade shape.

I suspect that may be intentional...:) My advice for anyone wanting to make an accurate looking seax is to base it closely off of an original.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Another image just to add to the confusion biggrin.gif

A broad sax with solid iron pommel. They do not exist, but here is one example.

There is no rivet block. The tang is peened flush with the end of the pommel.

This is not a scandinavian find. It is of Langobardian context.

 

My guess is that the grip was a wood core with leather cover, perhaps something like the sax I made and posted above.

 

attachicon.gifHelbild Scramasax.jpg

Hello everyone! I was interested in this discussion because I'm trying to make a seax for a customer who wants this weapon 40 cm long. I saw the image posted by Peter, i would like to know where the langobardian seax was found or where is kept now and if you have some measurements or other photos about it. Thank you so much for your help, it will be precious to me!

Edited by Rodolfo Tanara

MalleusMartialis

Swords Made in Florence, Italy

 

"Sì come il ferro s'arrugginisce sanza esercizio,

e l'acqua si putrefà o nel freddo s'addiaccia,

così lo 'ngegno sanza esercizio si guasta"

Leonardo da Vinci

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

 

Does anyone have the measurements of this sax?

 

Here's a full-on shot of the whole display case. That seax is in the upper left corner. Based on the sword hilt to the right (and foggy memory) it's about 13 to 14 inches overall.

 

MOL seaxcase.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

planche3_zpsfbb2a625.jpg

I am about 95% sure #7 is the same seax (type III, from the Thames at Wandsworth)... if so, the blade is approximately 13 1/4 inches long and 1 3/4 inches wide.... approximate is the best I can do with an image of this resolution.

 

I still want to make a replica of this one, it is lovely... :)

Edited by GEzell
  • Like 1

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, I'm going out to make that #4 right now !!

 

3 ft. of scramasaxes !!!! Badass!

 

Pics later. :)

Mark Green

 

I have a way? Is that better then a plan?

(cptn. Mal)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got most of it forged out, in 1060. Maybe 2-3 inches short. Needs a bit more work on the belly. Cam bat was dead from the weekend. I'll send pics tomorrow.

 

So, was there any kind of hilt fittings ever found with these long blades?????

Mark Green

 

I have a way? Is that better then a plan?

(cptn. Mal)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got most of it forged out, in 1060. Maybe 2-3 inches short. Needs a bit more work on the belly. Cam bat was dead from the weekend. I'll send pics tomorrow.

 

So, was there any kind of hilt fittings ever found with these long blades?????

Untitled-1copy_zps1a73eaf5.jpg

 

This is the only one I've seen with fittings, I believe they are iron.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeroen,

Am I reading this correctly? It was not welded in anyway? Would that make it a solid steel? Maybe a blister steel?

-Gabriel

The fundamental cause of trouble is that the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand Russell, philosopher
follow me on Instagram @raggedravenforge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeroen,

Am I reading this correctly? It was not welded in anyway? Would that make it a solid steel? Maybe a blister steel?

-Gabriel

 

Or just plain iron. But just because they couldn't detect a weld line, doesn't mean it's not welded. Naturally it's welded and full of weld lines. I don't know how they looked at it, whether an x-ray or a section removed, or partially polished. So it may still be sanmai for example.

Jeroen Zuiderwijk

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/barbarianmetalworking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys. Yup, that does seem to be the case.

 

I love that one Jeroen. I made that last week. In 1060. I've been working out the amount of material I would need to make them in bloom.
Pics soon. Cutting the fullers this week. :)

Jeroen is very likely correct about these seaxes being mostly iron. From all the studies I have seen, these bigger war blades were almost always just iron, or maybe a bit of steely bloom.
I have made a few up to about 20 in. from steely bloom. By the time you get them welded up, and drawn out, there is very little C remaining.

 

The smaller, every day seaxes seemed to have a lot more C content.


Mark Green

 

I have a way? Is that better then a plan?

(cptn. Mal)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...