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Hey guys, I just thought I'de post here to see if any of you gun owning knife makers out there could help me out.

I'm buying a rifle here quickly, and really have noone to educate me in the technical stuffs regarding firearms and ammo.. I've taken safety courses.. and got my rifle safety scout merrit badge a long long time back dime club ftw ;)

I know the safety stuff, and I know our state and local gun laws. I just really need some suggestions for a gun to choose.

 

I'll be target shooting pretty much exclusivly, and would like a round with a bit of a greater range than a .22 LR, which I have already. Bolt action is fine with me.

 

and here's the tough part, I'm trying to keep it around 500$ I can buy used, no problem with that, I just don't know what to look into..

 

Brand suggestions, and caliber suggestions would be super helpful.

 

I really appreciate it guys, thanks

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The first thing I would ask is what do you need the tool to do,... if your trying to turn nuts and bolts you wouldn't buy a hammer and so on you get the idea....

 

Are you looking for a target rifle with a little more punch then the 22,... I really like my little 22 hornet it will take groundhogs at 150 yards all day long, and the cost of ammo isn't that bad.

 

Another thing to think about is the cost of ammo, if you cant afford to shoot it you'll never be very good with it for lack of practice.

One more thing to consider is recoil if your unconvertible shooting it you'll never shoot it well, I'm a firm believer in one well placed shot is better then 50 just scattered out there not that there are times that cover fire would be necessary, but I duet you'll need it, although it's fun sometimes just to hear it go bang.......

 

Personally I have at least 1 of just about everything in the gun department and my newest favorite is the Saiga 12 as that I have automatic loaders for 12ga cost is acceptable and you can shoot it semi or full auto and let me tell you a 12ga at full auto is a blast to shoot, for a close rang battle weapon this is the best I've ever seen, All it is is a big AK47 chambered for 12ga, simple and controllable very very good gun.

 

So like I said, what would you like the gun to do...?

Edited by thedemoguy
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I 2nd the demoguy.

 

One of my fav. target rifles is currently my savage 22-250. Can shoot it all day without a sore shoulder and a great little varmit hunter if you ever get bored with targets. The .223 would be easier/cheaper to get ammo for. Savage might be a little pricey new, but keep the caliber in mind when shopping.

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I go with most of the others - need to know what it is you want to do with it, before any recommendation will mean anything or be worth anything.

 

 

If all you are doing is knocking off squirrels, then a .22 LR is about all you need, but if your are going after Cape Buffalo then something that shoots a .50 BMG wouldn't be to big.

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There are alot of cool setups out there for just plain plinkin. My favorite has to be the AK-47 with iron sights. Its a good rifle, and pretty accurate. I have also heard from others that theirs are not so accurate. I guess its a crapshoot with these weapons. (pun intended)

 

I recently picked up a Mini 14, and really like it. One thing to consider should be price and availability of ammo. Both the AK and the Mini have big supplies of ammo, and can be found just about anywhere.

 

Jed

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If all you want to do is plink away, I would stick with a .22 for now, learn your fundamentals, sight picture trigger squeeze, breathing. It is almost a zen experience when you are practicing, but something with a touch more range is a .17HMR and still be in the small caliber range, basically it is a .22 magnum. I think what you need to look at is the ammo costs, larger rounds can indeed cost a heck of alot more per brick and there still is a ammo shortage on for the more popular rounds. I would look at the site www.gunbroker.com for an idea of what you might be looking for. Personally I use a Springfield Socom16 on Troy Industries Furniture, I can use it in close and at range, but the ammo costs are a tad high since it is a 7.62x51 or .308. Call me paranoid but I keep 6, 25 round magazines loaded and handy at all times, ya just never know when the Zombies are coming to get ya.

Edited by WmHorus
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Jed,

 

"I recently picked up a Mini 14, and really like it. One thing to consider should be price and availability of ammo. Both the AK and the Mini have big supplies of ammo, and can be found just about anywhere."

 

 

Alot of the ammo for the AK clones are from russia and the former eastern block nations, and I have heard nothing but problems in relation to it, kinda why there is so much of it around. Granted its cheaper but having casings stick in the chamber from the enamel and the polymer coatings they place on it, and then there is cleaning time after using it, I dunno. Just alot of sportsmen I have talked to won't deal with the stuff.

Edited by WmHorus
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Well lets see, there is a bunch of choices. I will help try to narrow it down. You are correct you will see more accuracy out of a bolt gun generally. My question to you is do you want to stay rim-fire or are you open to center-fire. If target is your goal. Bull barrels are the way to go.

 

Two very popular center fire rifles that have good value are:

Remington 700

Savage 10 w/ accutriger

 

Both come in a large selection of calibers

 

As far as calibers, the choices are almost endless. I would consider avalibity and cost. .17 hornet, .22 mag, .223 rem, 22-250, .243 and .308 win

 

Lets not forget the standard .22lr round has a potential range at about a mile. Although its effectiveness out past 100 yds is questionable. Most kill shots in hunting environments with any caliber are normally under 250 yds.

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sweet, thanks for all the info guys :)

 

What im shooting for is a rifle for target shooting, I want max accuracy possible for my budget.. and a decent to long range. Shotguns are a future possibility, but I'm really looking at practice shooting with rifles. Bolt action is fine with me. And, honestly I have no idea what the difference between center and rimfire is.. could someone help me out with that? or point me to somewhere to research it? are there accuracy gains with centerfire? I heard that rimfire are reloadable brass, while centerfire is not, or something like that.

 

thanks guys, really thanks

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You have it a little backwards, center-fire ammo is reloadable, rimfire ammo is not :P

 

If all you want is to practice accuracy on the cheep, get a good .22 LR bolt gun - join an affiliated club, and you can get a good quality .22 target rifle for under $300 from CMP, but in a nut shell, every good skill you learn with the .22 LR, will translate when you move upto the larger calibers.

 

I know it's tempting to go for a larger caliber gun right away, but if you do, there is a very good chance you will pick up some bad habits from the unexpected recoil and noise

 

Once you build a foundation of good skills with the .22, I recommend a Savage bolt action in .223 Rem, and a quality scope - I say this because while Savage has a reputation with some people for "cheep", because they don't make their guns as fancy as others, the action is as solid as many of the bigger names ( like Ruger ), and by getting a no frills rifle you will have the money to spend on a quality scope, and that is more important than putting a cheep scope on an expensive rifle.

 

 

If semi-autos are in your future, go with a good quality AR15 clone - Bushmaster is good quality and your not going to pay the Colt price.

 

If long range shooting is in your future, I recommend the 6.5 Grendel - With the 144 grn loading it will out perform even the 180 7.62 NATO Sniper loading, at anything beyond 200 yrds.

 

The Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 series are for plinking, and will never be serious target rifles without allot of modification.

 

The same goes for most 7.62x39 rifles ( including all AK and SKS ), as the cartridge just doesn't have what it takes beyond 200 yrds or so - at 150 yrds or less makes for a decent deer cartridge.

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One thing to consider is that you can't reload for what you can buy 22LR for. Also reloading takes up time that you could be using at the range. I used to have a 22LR Ruger bolt action with a synthtic stock, and a 4 power glass sight. It was a blast to shoot. I could hold sub one inch 10 shot groups at 50 yards with the right ammo on a good day. My recommendation is that you get a good 22LR to start with unless there is a real reason for something larger. A good reason is that you will be using this to hunt something that you can't hunt with a 22LR or will be using it for very long rang paper punching and you cannot possibly get a second rifle to do it with.

 

Doug Lester

Edited by Doug Lester
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If it's just fun shooting you want , consider a muzzle loader . A LOT of fun , cheap to shoot , not near as much government regulation .

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This is pretty much outside of what everyone else has said (which is pretty much standard for me) but for inexpensive, short to medium range target shooting, you might consider air guns. I got a Beeman single stroke pneumatic for Christmas, 1000 fps .22, 1200 fps in .17. Good groups out to 75 yards, and really cheap to shoot, less than $.01 a shot. It's about as quiet as a .22 CB, but a lot more consistent.

 

Marianne says you need a .69 cal smoothbore trade gun, but she's trying to sell one. You can't hit much with it, but it'll scare the pants off of just about any target :lol: .

 

Geoff

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223 and and 7.62x39.... are both 100 yard rounds.....sure they will hit a target at longer ranges than that....but those rounds start losing alot of their energy at those ranges... if you have your shooting fundamentals down,go with sumthing with more ass at longer ranges..308 or better... its my thought that for the money nothing beats a mosin nagant for the price...its a hard hitting round(7.62x54/very close to 30.06) that will out perform a 308 at ranges over 800 yards(not that i shoot at those ranges)... ive owned at this point 6 of these guns 3 russian a finnish and 2 hungarian's...there are many makes and models of this rifle i found that i perfer the m44 which is the carbine...a very robust weapon(and the folding bayonet is fun and useful as well/ i used mine for the 1st time this past season to finish a doe/instead of using another round)...... last time i checked the carbines a running about 80 to 120 dollas...and 880 rds cost a lil over 140(sans shipping).........there is alot of funny advice in these above posts...and some really good...remington 700 is the yardstick all civi rifles are judged by(i think remington has solved that bump the butt, gun discharges issue)....as for 5.56n/223 our miltary is looking at new rounds for a reason(while a fast round its still a beefed up .22cal) and atleast in the commonwealth of va not legal to hunt deer with cause its to small(to small for a deer/to small as a "man stopper").......and another quik note i noticed the 308 and 7.62x51N being used interchangably.. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME ROUND while the size of the bullet and casing are the same...powered charge in the 7.62n will destroy a civi rifle...

 

my top bolt picks

-mosin nagant m44 for the price of both ammo and gun and its knock down power

-swedish mauser in 6.5 x 55... these guns are the finest boltaction rifle ive ever handled...and the round is a very flat shooting and hard hitting round(if you can find them their sorta pricey)btw it was the 1st boatail round made..

-german mauser what can i say?? its the wheel of boltaction rifles

-turkish mauser 8mm(only if you can find the most early models) made on german tooling and qc'd by german engs...

 

my top auto picks

hk 94 in 7.62n... a work horse..fine fine weapon

m14 '' '' another great weapon but pricey...

 

if you have problems finding a good price on a surplus boltaction pm me i'll put you in touch with my buddy that has a engraving bussiness/ he doest charge but 10% over his cost when ordering rifles.... oh and if you have a chance....checkout www.surplusguns.com great site and tons of info.... best of luck to you....

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geoff,cant hit much with it ??? try loading her with buck and ball, youll hit sumthing lol btw how much are you asking for that smoothbore ???? pics ?

Edited by blacklionforge
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Someone made a good point that I should have,... { by getting a no frills rifle you will have the money to spend on a quality scope,}

 

That's very good advise, I have rifles that have scopes on them that cost more then the gun its self, you can only shoot as good as the scope will shoot, I'm a firm believer in good optics.

 

Now I'm not talking about the $2000 scopes but you can buy a good 3x9 Leupold for about $200 and if your going with a 243, 223 or what ever you get a 3x9 will do.

 

You still need to put a job to the gun what are you going to do with it.

 

1 long rang target or varmint 22-250

2 long rang hunting 7mm rem mag or 300 win mag

3 my favored bear gun is a Marlin 1895G chambered in 45-70...........

4 cheap guns, fun and cheap to shoot AK47/SKS chambered in the 7.62x39 very good to 200 yards

5 12ga Saiga 12 is, I think the best tactical 12ga money can buy, home and hunting you would do well to buy a Rem 870 winging master, the best pump gun ever made.

 

Bill the weapons and demolitions expert Johnson

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I thought about it most of the day, if I was to suggest a rifle for a beginner. A gun that cheap, reliable, upgradable, good enuf for target or just hours of plinking fun. I would strongly suggest the Ruger 10-22. They come in wood or synthetic stocks.

 

Personally I would choose the 10-22T model. It is a solid platform for any beginner to learn from. As far as accuracy, it will be better than most of the population can shoot. I believe numbers of 1.5" MOA are pretty standard in factory form. Of coarse it is .22 lr and is semi-auto. MSRP of $500.

 

As far as scopes, optics are the most overlooked accessory. There is no need to get a 6-24x Zeiss scope. But you should get a quality scope. Never buy a used scope to install on a new gun! Just trust me...

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I had a couple of 1896 Swedish Mausers. One I left stock and, like most military rifles of that time, was a little on the heavy side. One I had cut back to behind the step in the barrel and had it restocked. One thing that I liked about the gun is that the safety allows the bolt to be operated in the safe position. The one thing that I didn't like about them was that it took about a bottle of copper solvent and two football games to get the copper fouling out of each barrel. Once they were cleaned, however, they were tack drivers. Ammo is was pretty available for the 6.5mm Swede and the case can also be remanufactured from 30-06 cases. I'm not sure if I had to trim the cases after reforming but I know that I didn't have to ream the inside of the necks. But that was before I found a source of new cases in that caliber. It was many moons ago, but I don't think I put $300 total into the updated rifle.

 

Doug Lester

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not sure if anyone really explasined in above post as i kinda just breezed through them, but the difference between rimfire and centerfire...

 

Rimfire is not reloadable as stated above. It comes with the primer in that rim of the cartridge. when you pull the trigger a pin hits the rim and bang. The cartridge's life is over. 22 shorts, LR, and mangums are rimfire.

 

Centerfire on the other hand is probably what you think of when you hear bolt action. If you look at a centerfire cartridge on the bottom you will see a small primer that is a pressed into the cartridge. Once shot the spent primer can be removed, cartridge resized and cleaned and reloaded. Centerfire is reloadable however that is not really a cost effective option unless you start burning through ammo or you are looking to competition benchrest shoot.

 

If you were looking at gettting into reloading , the minimum you would need would be a good reloading book, a tumbler to clean, a quality scale , to measure powder charges, the proper set of dies for your cartridge, shell holders, a single stage press, a priming tool, possible a case trimmer and some calipers, and of course bullets, powder and brass. I have always preferred RCBS stuffRCBS. Others chim in please if I forgot something important. As you can see the start up is not real cheap. But it can be a relaxing process ;)

 

Hope I didnt confuse you more.

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The Olympics were on today and one of the events was the Biathlon. They shoot 22 long rifle I believe. It's a great little round and it's cheep.

 

If I were you I'd find a gun club or gun range where you can try out rifles you think you like to see how they fit you and your shooting ability.

 

After 25 years as a range master and firearms instructor for a state law enforcement agency I must say that you can't go wrong with a 22cal rifle for having fun target shooting. If I had some dough burning a hole in my pocket I would invest in some nice ear protection that allows you to hear range commands but protects your ears when it gets loud, then I would get the best eye protection you can find.

 

If you want a bigger round than a 22lr then my choice is a 308cal. I shoot it out of a Remington 700 BDL. For many years that was the prefered sniper rifle. For a scope I use a Leopold 3X9 variable. The scope alone will bust your budget but I would rather wait, save up, and get it right the first time. Shooting junk can get you hurt or killed.

 

You can buy 308 rounds in many different loads to suit just about any shooting situation you find. It's available everywhere in the USA and is reasonably priced.

 

Art

Edited by Art Lawrence
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Hello all:

 

As a a class III FFL holder..I would have to say that anything in .308 win/ 7,62mm NATO would probably be the best bet. Contrary to a earleir post the 7,62mm NATO is loaded to LOWER pressures than SAMMI .308 Winchester specs. Now if you use "military" brass and use "civilian" loading guides you WILL get into serious trouble cause "military" brass is thicker and that means less internal volume space and HIGHER PRESSURE than "civilian" brass...just like the old .30 1906 US Gov't (aka .30'06) vs the commercial made stuff... (same goes for 5,56mm Military vs "civilian" .223 Rem) Depending upon where you are a semi-auto may or may not be legal..Here in NV we can own select fire weapons as well as silencers and all the other fun stuff...

 

A FAL or a clone there of would be fun....so would a Mossberg 110...even though these are a "bolt gun" their "out of the box" accuracy is amazing due to the way they are put together. Yeah they aren't as "pretty" as a say a Remington 700, but they are like 1/2 to 1/3 the price and if you get a stock upgrade and a trigger job you'll still be way ahead of the game cost wise. My own Mossberg 110 out of the box was shooting a bit less than 1 MOA with decent target ammunition....Now my M-21 built for me by the USASMU (United States Army Special Marksmanship Unit) beat that hands down (it's a M-14 that was really reworked, converted to semi-auto ONLY and tweaked all over from here to next week) but these are NOT usually "available" on the "civilian" market..in fact..it it doesn't say "Property of the US Government" all over it and accompanied by all the nessassary paperwork it probably is a "fake"....these are rare rifles on the open market and I got mine through the proper channels....

 

 

Now I am NOT a fan of the 5,56mm NATO for a lot of reasons..come on now..it's a freakin .22!!! I don't care how fast it's going cause my mentor the late Mr. Elmer Kieth said the bigger the hole going in the better...but if you absolutely NEED a 5,56mm NATO go with the Bushmaster...They are 100% No. 1 top drawer rifles.. (I have one of their original ARM pistols...in fact I carried that during my deployment down south during the Hurricane Katrina mess)...

 

Now a .22 S,L,LR is hard to beat for the "bang for the buck" cause if you can't "hit" with a .22 you ain't gonna do much better wioth anything else.... but personally..if it was up to me....I would go with the 7,62mm NATO for the "most hitting power" for the $$$. I have one in my "go bag" just in case the balloon goes up....

 

JPH

 

FFL NO 9-88-003-03-0F-35473

Edited by JPH
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Get a Savage bolt action.

I've never had trouble getting 30-06 for cheap. 30-06 and .308 should always be plenty available. I also don't like .223 or 5.56 NATO.

My favorite rifles for first time buyers are Savages. Out of the box they are very accurate, and they are easily upgraded later on. The first new rifle I bought was a 7mm Rem. Mag Savage. I've gotten rid of everything but the action. It's now 15lbs with a 1" barrel and does 1/2 MOA easily.

I have russian and swiss military rifles, which I like, but I don't recommend for easy access to good ammo.

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