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MassArtTom

Gungnir

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Something I've been working on this semester, I'm going to finish the furnishings next semester. 4 core blade, spiral welded socket, I dont have pictures of the socket now, but more to come. The middle two cores are a gordian knot assembly and the outside is explosion, the socket is random when I get a picture of it, the blade is 12" long and 2"ish wide. Its hollow ground and close to 3/8s thick at the spine, roughly 23". This is going to be a winged style spear with damascus wings and butt plate when I get too it with a carved oak or ash shaft, I'm not sure yet. What'd ya think?!

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Oh my, that is really beautiful. I have only seen a few spears that made me react like this. Pole arms are not usually my forte, but this one is great. Not to mention the fact that the real major weapon for so much of history was the spear. It is good to see a modern and artful interp. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

kc

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Most impressive! Some day I gotta make one like this...

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Tom,i'm sorry to say,but the lines of the spear are...sorry.(You've asked,"what do you think").

I think that,cursed with the generational curse,you've NO idea of what it takes to cut something,to chop it(judging by your horribly impractical axes),or to perform any function other than the electronic-based one...

I don't want it to sound mean-that's not the point.The point IS:

 

You have the means,the facilities,the teachers,et c.,to produce high-grade MATERIAL.

 

That is not enough.(Though it is a GREAT deal,wonderful stuff,and much respect for doing that).

 

But,damn it,man,there are physics in this world,above and beyond those reflected (palely)in video games...(the faux-viking nomenclature nonwithstanding...).

 

Use your talent,and those marvelous college facilities,to reflect the NATURE of the steel,the physics/forces involved,et c.Build a plain spear that WORKS,first,and then get about those fantasy shapes...You'd be far more gratified,really,i mean it.Otherwise,it's just too naive,and looks it.Your stuff has that CNC'd look of those B-movie props about them...

 

Your teacher's,JD'd stuff,has many of those same problems-sleek,but souless,baseless(Sorry,JD,just being honest here.Can we just drop that PC stuff for a moment?You're a fantastic technician,as in "all dressed up,with nowhere to go",sort of "style" ).

 

Both you guys need some basic reality lessons,as in the way that the cutlery works.Do some wood carving,or go camping,or something.You're getting way too remotely-cerebral,and it's

robbing from your VERY significant skill-level.

 

Please excuse this,non-anglo-saxon honesty,but it does seem a shame that such skill,and expertise,goes astray...

 

With utmost respect,and most sincerely,Jake.

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Beautifully done artistic design (I'd especially like to see a tutorial on the spiral welded socket, as I've only ever seen mandrel formed cone sockets). With the length of the steel shaft it somewhat resembles a pilum with a spearhead, which is definitely interesting. I think you should go with a short ash haft, personally.

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tom.. i love that piece... while i can understand the rambling comment jake made..i dont think it holds true with the piece youve shared with us....

Edited by blacklionforge

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i can agree with jake in some things, the spear looks good, but the more i look at it, the more it looks like an un-finished dagger. the huge ricasso creates a big break in your appreciation for this peice and makes it seem like it's there to be held, which wouldnt make any sence to me.

 

the skill level is dizzying, but i would like to see the blade wider, arround 2 inches or so, maybe a little longer, and sans ricasso. your PW prowess is fantastic (and you do it well enough to make me insanely jealous of the skills you have).

 

as for the haft, ash was mythologically acurate, and i think any good-looking butt plate will do.

Edited by C Daniel

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Tom,i'm sorry to say,but the lines of the spear are...sorry.(You've asked,"what do you think").

I think that,cursed with the generational curse,you've NO idea of what it takes to cut something,to chop it(judging by your horribly impractical axes),or to perform any function other than the electronic-based one...

I don't want it to sound mean-that's not the point.The point IS:

 

You have the means,the facilities,the teachers,et c.,to produce high-grade MATERIAL.

 

That is not enough.(Though it is a GREAT deal,wonderful stuff,and much respect for doing that).

 

But,damn it,man,there are physics in this world,above and beyond those reflected (palely)in video games...(the faux-viking nomenclature nonwithstanding...).

 

Use your talent,and those marvelous college facilities,to reflect the NATURE of the steel,the physics/forces involved,et c.Build a plain spear that WORKS,first,and then get about those fantasy shapes...You'd be far more gratified,really,i mean it.Otherwise,it's just too naive,and looks it.Your stuff has that CNC'd look of those B-movie props about them...

 

Your teacher's,JD'd stuff,has many of those same problems-sleek,but souless,baseless(Sorry,JD,just being honest here.Can we just drop that PC stuff for a moment?You're a fantastic technician,as in "all dressed up,with nowhere to go",sort of "style" ).

 

Both you guys need some basic reality lessons,as in the way that the cutlery works.Do some wood carving,or go camping,or something.You're getting way too remotely-cerebral,and it's

robbing from your VERY significant skill-level.

 

Please excuse this,non-anglo-saxon honesty,but it does seem a shame that such skill,and expertise,goes astray...

 

With utmost respect,and most sincerely,Jake.

 

I appreciate the honesty. However, my goal at the moment is artist and aesthetic innovation right now, I mean I've literally got maybe 10 pieces under my belt, if that? I've been setting stages for what each project is for. So currently I'm not as concerned with functionality, there is historical reference and use thought about but its of a less priority., my next series is actually going to be when I explore that. As far as JD is concerned, idk, he had a sword in yesterday that shaved paper, hes passed all his certification. I dont think he should be held accountable in a unsavory fashion for making a beautiful blade versus something that is optimized for a cutting competition or camp work. And from watching him drop blades into concrete and them being okay, I know hes not skimping on anything, and working under him, he doesn't let you skimp on anything.

 

This is almost an exact representation of a historical winged spear found in Dusseldorf with the exception of the ricasso, which I added after JD and I talked about some of the aesthetics of it and how the lines would flow regarding the pattern and the blade, the ricasso was a more attractive choice than fading the bevels into the haft.

 

Also, regarding my axes, one of my other professors is known for his photo realistic hatchet carving, and for the last one I bounced ideas off of him and in the end he said in the end, my eyelet was a little small, so the handle might not hold up as long, otherwise a monstrously versatile carving/hewing axe. So maybe it wont be felling trees, but I do think about these things. While aesthetics certainly takes some priority right now, I do assess these objects as far as my knowledge can take me.

 

Like I said, I appreciate the honesty, and while I'm not experienced enough to really know if your right or wrong, I feel like its not quite as extreme as you make it out to be just from my experiences.

Edited by MassArtTom

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Cut the guy some slack Jake – he’s in art school, where function and practicality are far down on the list of things one gets judged by. Massart is better than some schools in that they (in the metals department, at least) do care about getting control of the materials & techniques…I think it took me a couple years before I made anything of practical worth after I left school. ;)

The spiral-welded socket is a great idea B) Well done!

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I think its pretty good aswell.. i bet it would take down a boar if it comes down to it.. ;)

-not a viking piece in the strict sense of it

 

style can change a little ... just look at the Persian knives people make.. most of it when you compare it to actual Persian blades are absolute Crap.... with just about as much likely hood of being from the Yanomamo tool kit as a Persian one... but it is what it is... new style, and interesting on its own... created in a different culture..

 

i don't believe that Jake wanted that to sound as harsh as it did... internet can be cold in the way it conveys a message.... but i do think there is a need for some very strict sense viking spears to be made.... it could be an awesome project and may fill a gap in the community that would like to see more of it..

 

by the bye... check out this site that Petr has mentioned on his posts... i'm absolutely addicted to looking at the finds.. i believe spear is " spjutspets "

http://www.historiska.se/

 

enjoy

 

Greg

 

ps..

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Tom - call it a knockoff of a pilum. That way, the goal is to throw it and have it stick into your enemy or their shield. If it sticks in the enemy, good. It it sticks in their shield, the long ricasso part will bend and they won't be able to pull it out and throw it back at you!

 

there - practical art. B)

 

kc

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Jake, your honesty is truly refreshing. I'd hate to think there were folks out there just shinin' me on. You made some points, but mostly I was left wondering if you truly understand just what's going on in my classes. Just to make things clear from my side, I appreciate the respect you do grant our efforts here.

What goes down in the forge area is this; A hand selected group of highly motivated students with developing artistic sensibilities get to learn the value of solid craftsmanship married to artistic vision and concept. The standards I set for them are extremely high and They know I'm expecting them to BUST THEIR ASSES. I challenge each and everyone of them to realize their visions, And they do. They lose their fear of Machine tools, And become familiar with tools and processes not many others out there understand, if they're even aware of them at all.

They discover that Pattern welded steel has a beauty and sophistication as a building material unlike any other AND each one learns to make it well. And all of this made possible through a state run arts academy. Sound pretty sweet? Well it is, and the ones that really get it, waste no time in throwing themselves in as far as they can go.

Pretty soon their final projects will be done for the semester and I'll take pix of them all. The first knife projects some of them turn out are very impressive and well made. Some of my students choose to make other kinds of objects with patterned steel, like hammers and even ice cream scoops, but they are all made to very exacting craft standards nothing ever slap-dash or shoddy. These are very serious students and I have the distinct pleasure and honor of instructing them. Passing the skills on and learning a great deal as well; a nice way to spend time I should think.

And as far as my own work is concerned, if you ever picked it up to handle it, you'd know it was the real deal. Under the "styling" there is ALWAYS a solid tool or weapon, made as well as it can be made. From what you seem to say and I could be wrong, your aesthetic is a utilitarian one.

Mine is as well, it's just not the only one I work with.

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Tom You are doing a great job there, keep it up, I would love to see some better pics though.

 

JD congratulations on what you are doing with those students overthere, I know several students here who would love to have the opportunity to do what your students are doing.

 

Richard

Edited by Richard van Dijk

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Awesome work Tom... Wish I went to this school :( But alas I'm a canuck and shall stay broke :P

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That is an awesome piece. I really think that particular pattern in the steel just fits perfectly with the shape and dimensions of the spear...just awesome. I can't wait to see it finished.

 

Also, JD, from what you describe, I really wish my university's (University of Washington) art department had something anywhere near what you describe. That sounds truly amazing.

 

-Dan

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Jake, your honesty is truly refreshing. I'd hate to think there were folks out there just shinin' me on. You made some points, but mostly I was left wondering if you truly understand just what's going on in my classes. Just to make things clear from my side, I appreciate the respect you do grant our efforts here.

What goes down in the forge area is this; A hand selected group of highly motivated students with developing artistic sensibilities get to learn the value of solid craftsmanship married to artistic vision and concept. The standards I set for them are extremely high and They know I'm expecting them to BUST THEIR ASSES. I challenge each and everyone of them to realize their visions, And they do. They lose their fear of Machine tools, And become familiar with tools and processes not many others out there understand, if they're even aware of them at all.

They discover that Pattern welded steel has a beauty and sophistication as a building material unlike any other AND each one learns to make it well. And all of this made possible through a state run arts academy. Sound pretty sweet? Well it is, and the ones that really get it, waste no time in throwing themselves in as far as they can go.

Pretty soon their final projects will be done for the semester and I'll take pix of them all. The first knife projects some of them turn out are very impressive and well made. Some of my students choose to make other kinds of objects with patterned steel, like hammers and even ice cream scoops, but they are all made to very exacting craft standards nothing ever slap-dash or shoddy. These are very serious students and I have the distinct pleasure and honor of instructing them. Passing the skills on and learning a great deal as well; a nice way to spend time I should think.

And as far as my own work is concerned, if you ever picked it up to handle it, you'd know it was the real deal. Under the "styling" there is ALWAYS a solid tool or weapon, made as well as it can be made. From what you seem to say and I could be wrong, your aesthetic is a utilitarian one.

Mine is as well, it's just not the only one I work with.

 

Incredibly well said Jd Smith.

 

 

Oh, and I love the spear head :)

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That is an awesome piece. I really think that particular pattern in the steel just fits perfectly with the shape and dimensions of the spear...just awesome. I can't wait to see it finished.

 

Also, JD, from what you describe, I really wish my university's (University of Washington) art department had something anywhere near what you describe. That sounds truly amazing.

 

-Dan

Transfer! We need more dedicated bladesmiths! I'm currently the only person in the school who makes blades fulltime as a student, theres like one or two every 3 years or so, we've been trying to recruit some of the younger kids into it, but we'll see hahaha

 

Thanks guys!

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And just to make everyone aware, Mass Art, Will allow sculpture majors to work towards a degree in Bladesmithing. A couple of years back we graduated Andrew Meers, a very superior blade/swordsmith, now at university of Ill. Carbondale working towards his MFA. He graduated w/honors, BA Sculpture;concentration,Bladesmithing. So, at our school Bladesmithing is a bonafide, fully recognized course of study, taken very seriously by the school.

Edited by jdsmith02115

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It would be nice if UW did but with the rising tuition problems there, I would be hard pressed to consider going.

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wow great job on the socket. you wouldnt be interested in elaboratong on that process would you. I know some flintlock types who who would love to know.

Edited by J. Helmes

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