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Heat treat 5160

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Hi Mike

I haven’t tried that one yet but I made an attempt at the recipe given by Stacy E Apelt on the second link. I didn’t have all the ingredients so tried some substitutions but the first experiment didn’t stick well to the blade. I plan on giving it another go once my shop is set back up, probably using the right ingredients this time ;)

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Thank you, Charles...

Mike 

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Well, the good news is your grain looks pretty good...:(  I suspect forging too cold.

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8 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Well, the good news is your grain looks pretty good...:(  I suspect forging too cold.

Very happy about the grain as well.....

That was the first one we forged, still feeling each other out, and was my first suspicion as well.

I broke those pieces off by catching the edge in a vice and pulling, that which is left got the same treatment......because nothing else broke off I have another theory....

All the blades had varying degrees of warp in them, more than I could grind out so I heated them up and straitened them between two angle iron in a vice.  It did hardened the blades a bit and I had to use torched to pull back hardness to get the pin holes drilled.

That front hole on this blade was a sharp drill bit through semi-hardened steel and did not sound pretty, this blade also did a propeller into the drill press' post :wacko:

I might be able to salvage something from this blade, and the other 2 are fine at least.  

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Yep, that could also have helped.  :(

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Just a little thing...

I've messed with O1 and plate quenching.  Learned it from people at one of Sword Forum or Kevin Cashen's old metallurgy forum... straight razor builders.  3/32" max. thickness at knife-like austenitizing temp. (lower end of range). Consistently got "as quenched" Rockwell readings in the 64.5 RHc to 65.0 RHc range (throw out first test, average next four). It works because of O1's nose at 8 -10 seconds is time enough for 1" aluminum plates to get 3/32" past it.  10 - 12 timed seconds  in the plates and 3/32" piece is at lower temp. than "hand warm".   

Heat Treater's Guide shows 5160 nose (1555 F austenitizing temp.) at 4 - 5 seconds. Should be enough time to plate quench... big angle iron ought to be able to take enough heat (near-surface) for some level and/or depth of hardening (pretty speculative in this part... maybe not enough sink mass... way too much thickness... not really enough time...  wouldn't it austemper with the extra heat and not be brittle?...  or ???).  Is this it... or any part of it?  I don't know enough to know.

Mike  

Edited by Mike Krall
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Hi Mike

Thanks for your thoughts on the 5160....will probably never know what happened....just try to do better next time  :)

 

16 hours ago, Mike Krall said:

Just a little thing...

I've messed with O1 and plate quenching.  Learned it from people at one of Sword Forum or Kevin Cashen's old metallurgy forum... straight razor builders.  3/32" max. thickness at knife-like austenitizing temp. (lower end of range). Consistently got "as quenched" Rockwell readings in the 64.5 RHc to 65.0 RHc range (throw out first test, average next four). It works because of O1's nose at 8 -10 seconds is time enough for 1" aluminum plates to get 3/32" past it.  10 - 12 timed seconds  in the plates and 3/32" piece is at lower temp. than "hand warm".   

This is very interesting to know.....

Question: Couldn't afford aluminium so my plates are steel, 150mmx400mmx30mm -  think that will work? 

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I simply don't know if steel plates would work, Gerhard.  

I think I've heard of folks successfully using thinner aluminum.  I got 1" plates because they were there.  I know of a lot of plate quenchers (slip joint, liner lock makers... Owen Wood and his O1 multi-pattern damascus, and ???) mount the plates in a woodworker's vise... quick release type considered best but standard definitely works.  Me, I use hand pressure.  I've had blades come out of the plates wobbly but it's not common and they were save-able... takes time and patience, though.  

What I think (think), is a vise may keep the knife steel flatter during quenching,  and for many that advantage is worth the tooling...  but... ???  And I've come across plate quencher descriptions of vises that don't work well because applied pressure causes springing (misalignment of the jaws/plates) and uneven quenching do to lack of contact... or some such.  

Mike 

Oh, just had a thought.  Would you have access to scrap copper cheap?  Do you cast?  Castable Bronze scrap.  Might you know of a place to get high voltage copper breaker bar? I came a cross a couple of 4" x 12-ish" bars and scooped them up.  They are only 1/4" thick but they should take heat very quickly.  

Edited by Mike Krall

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Steel plates work fine for air-hardening steels, but might be iffy on oil-hardening steels.  I like the copper idea, that would be excellent.

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The plates are pretty heavy, so much so I need to weld handles on before I can think of using them.

My mentor uses mostly Elmax these days and that's the one occasion where I saw a plate quench.  His plates are thinner, 20 or 25mm I suspect, but he uses the relevant stainless steels.

Considering the stock I use I cannot imagine a blade that thin moving those plates.....but that's said with no experience.......

Bronze no, but I do have a length of copper breaker bar that's a bit bent and worse for wear.........what's the idea? line the plates with the copper?

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You could, or of the copper is thick enough, say over 8mm, just clamp the blade between two pieces.  Copper conducts heat so well that should harden thin (~1.5mm) 5160 completely.

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On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 1:42 PM, Gerhard Gerber said:

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That Gerhard will teach you several different languages.  :) 

  • Haha 1

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