Jump to content
JimC

This might be interesting: nugui

Recommended Posts

Nugui is powdered water stone, iron oxide and clove oil. The mixtures and recipes vary by school and individual polisher. Right!

 

I got my degree in Fine Art, and I spent a large amount of time using oil paint. My brain kicked over a memory this morning: many of the "Earth" brown pigments are iron oxide in one form or another. There's also a Chrome Oxide Green, which as you might guess, uses chrome oxide as a pigment.

 

Iron oxide + oil + ? = nugui

 

I asked myself, "Jim, is it possible that you have old tubes of paint that might be really concentrated Nugui or metal polish?"

 

The mix that I experimented with on one of my own blades was Burnt Sienna mixed with a small amount of sub-micron alumina powder and a little clove oil. It worked. I even went so far as to try hadori on the hamon afterward. That worked also.

 

Notes: the blade I used has been through so many different kinds of traditional and hybrid polish that I may never be able to replicate this. HOWEVER, the last polish prior to this was a strong vinegar etch that left a very clean surface after polishing.

 

Would someone who does hybrid polishing try this and see what results you get?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nugui is powdered water stone, iron oxide and clove oil. The mixtures and recipes vary by school and individual polisher. Right!

 

I got my degree in Fine Art, and I spent a large amount of time using oil paint. My brain kicked over a memory this morning: many of the "Earth" brown pigments are iron oxide in one form or another. There's also a Chrome Oxide Green, which as you might guess, uses chrome oxide as a pigment.

 

Iron oxide + oil + ? = nugui

 

I asked myself, "Jim, is it possible that you have old tubes of paint that might be really concentrated Nugui or metal polish?"

 

The mix that I experimented with on one of my own blades was Burnt Sienna mixed with a small amount of sub-micron alumina powder and a little clove oil. It worked. I even went so far as to try hadori on the hamon afterward. That worked also.

 

Notes: the blade I used has been through so many different kinds of traditional and hybrid polish that I may never be able to replicate this. HOWEVER, the last polish prior to this was a strong vinegar etch that left a very clean surface after polishing.

 

Would someone who does hybrid polishing try this and see what results you get?

 

Fine Art degree holder here too. I have experimented with some pigments while polishing as well, to interesting results. I think the "open pores" of a polished blade will catch any fine pigment that you rub on it enhancing the contrast like a traditional nugui. My only caution to trying alternatives is that modern oil paints may contain some additives that may react with the steel and cause some rusting down the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine Art degree holder here too. I have experimented with some pigments while polishing as well, to interesting results. I think the "open pores" of a polished blade will catch any fine pigment that you rub on it enhancing the contrast like a traditional nugui. My only caution to trying alternatives is that modern oil paints may contain some additives that may react with the steel and cause some rusting down the road.

 

 

Jim,

Great idea, I love it when someone connects the dots. There are places where pigments are still sold in powder form, I am not sure if these are as fine as what is found in the tubes.

 

Jan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim,

Great idea, I love it when someone connects the dots. There are places where pigments are still sold in powder form, I am not sure if these are as fine as what is found in the tubes.

 

Jan

 

That looks like very interesting store. I am guessing its not in the US hehe

patrick :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks like very interesting store. I am guessing its not in the US hehe

patrick :)

 

Patrick,

 

I love hardware stores and art supply stores ( especially those that have been in a location for a long time ). I have brought home some odd stuff. The top photo is in Rome the bottom photo is in Kyoto.

Jan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are quite a few online sources for dry pigments here in the States. Daniel Smith in Seattle sells them, as do Pearl Arts & Crafts. I don't remember the name of the company, but there is a store in New York that specializes in dry pigments.

 

It is likely that the dry material isn't as fine as what ends up packaged in the tubes, since part of the manufacturing process (traditionally) is grinding the oil and pigments together.

 

P, one of the reasons that I'm using the earth colors is that they have fewer additives than any of the other colors that contain some amount of iron oxide. I did try mixing the burnt sienna with a little bit of the chrome oxide green and that did interesting polishing AND color. It is an interesting experiment!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about using the iron oxide sold as powder in ceramic supply shops (Used for glazing)?

It is a fine powder, but perhaps still too coarse and perhaps uneven?

I have had in mind to try this myself but not got around to try it yet.

 

If you suspend this in oil (and grind it?) it may come close to Nugui, especially if you mix in a fine powdered abrasive?

Edited by peter johnsson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim, Peter and Jan,

 

You are certainly on the right track. Needless to say that the same "Spanish red" material that we have been using as ore for smelting is finely powdered hematite with a smaller fraction of other additives (mostly silica). When mixing this with machinist's "cutting oil" it makes a nugui equivalent. You can vary the proportions of dust and oil and add some water to thin the mix too.

 

I have used this mixture on modern monosteel blades with disappointing results. On the other hand, it gives decent results on blades made of tamahagane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finding really fine powdered pigments shouldn't be difficult at all with an art supply store.

 

What you DON'T want to do is try to grind forging scale into powder, mix it with random seed oils and then... Anise oil was the worst because not only was it a waste of time, but it has the strongest smell that won't go away. Late night experiments are better left for the next day when the proper materials can be sourced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try grinding the forging scale in a coffee grinder (but don't use it for coffee anymore) and mix with mineral oil, takes some time but I swear it does something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try saving the remains of cutting oil and fine polishing paper. I always scoop up the dark oil left over after using 1500 - 2000 grit paper and cutting oil and use it as color/nugui. I save it in a glass vial and use it as a final polish after etching and all that...works as an ultra fine polishing compound and gives some color.

 

For some reson I saved some dark black oil ued to polish some wrought iron and in steels where there is pattern or openish grain it adds a lot of color/contrast if applied to a cotton ball and rubbed like hell on the blade.

 

Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...