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Richard Furrer

Hottest new stainless?

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Hello All,

So..what is the hottest new/old stainless for knives now?

 

Last I heard CPM S30V was making a splash.

Is there a newer "bestest" stainless steel out yet?

 

Ric

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Ive hear ZDP189, VG10, and more then I can count. But Im still a fan of 154CM (not the CPM version). Its cheaper. :lol:

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I'll admit that I have a knife in ZPD189 and in CPMS30V they cut great and hold an edge for a long time, however, they both require a diamond stone to put an edge back on them once that they do start to go dull. I get totally unexcited about these new alloys. Knives made with these steel, at least to me, fall under the heading of "the best knife you'll never be able to sharpen". The salesman who sold me my Benchmade with the S30V said that he sent his back to the factory when it started to get dull, which for him was about once a year. The pocket knife that I carry now is of 154CM and I can put a hair popping edge on it with oil stones and a lether strop in about ten minutes. It also cost about 1/3 what my fancier steel knives ran me.

 

Doug Lester

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s30v is still hot to trot on bladeforums, CPM154 is like the old hand, very respected still.

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What about AEB-L by Uddeholm Bohler?

 

Ric

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Vanax 35 by Bohler. It won't be available until next year but I got to make a demo knife from it. It cuts unlike anything I have ever used. It is more stainless the 416 and holds an edge like s30v. It is a low carbon high nitrogen steel and forms nitrides instead ofcarbides. Look it up, its awesome.

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What about AEB-L by Uddeholm Bohler?

 

Ric

Ive heard of its insane edge holding, but I didn't know it was new. I though it was already a few years old and new over here. Isn't it kinda like CPM S60V?

Edited by bigfoot

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Über-Goober Spec-Tech 5000 is my favorite steel that outcuts, outlasts, and outperforms ALL OTHER KNIFE MATERIALS.

 

Not only doesn't it rust, it polishes your other knives when you're not looking! It is harder and more flexible than rubber diamonds! If you're not using it you're losing it!

 

:P

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What about AEB-L by Uddeholm Bohler?

 

Geez Ric, that alloy is older than you are! Same formula as 12C27 basically but manufactured by BU rather than Sandvik. I heard Soligen was working on something called "wunderstahl..."

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Geez Ric, that alloy is older than you are! Same formula as 12C27 basically but manufactured by BU rather than Sandvik. I heard Soligen was working on something called "wunderstahl..."

 

 

Why not nitride the blade edge of the stainless?

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Geez Ric, that alloy is older than you are!

Are you sure? I've seen wootz ingots from India that aren't as old as Ric! :P:D

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as the song goes..."everything old is new again"

 

I have setled on AEB-L for my carbon stainless..easy to get,good steel, simple heat treatment..and Dr. Verhoeven seems to like it in his book as well....

The CPM steels seem interesting, but they are also a bit of an issue when reforging as they require more effort to move and with some of the high alloy content can lead to weld shear when used in pattern-welded billets....which is my main use for the stuff.

 

 

Jeff..should that not be "wootz" ingots..in quotes.....it was your research that brought this to the forefront to all that wish to investigate.

 

Ric

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Ric,

 

Depends on what your goal is. Take a look at the new PM stainless coming from Carpenter. Many of them are similar to steels that Crucible puts out, but supposedly Carpenter's process is yielding higher quality due to their use of finer mesh powder.

 

-d

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Ric,

 

Depends on what your goal is. Take a look at the new PM stainless coming from Carpenter. Many of them are similar to steels that Crucible puts out, but supposedly Carpenter's process is yielding higher quality due to their use of finer mesh powder.

 

-d

 

What does "higher quality" mean?

 

Ric

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Geez Ric, that alloy is older than you are! Same formula as 12C27 basically but manufactured by BU rather than Sandvik. I heard Soligen was working on something called "wunderstahl..."

 

AEB-L = 13C26 not 12C27 Mike.

 

I use AEB-L on most of my kitchen knives >60HRC and like it. I disagree with the comment about insane edge holding though. IMO and experience its advantage is that it will take a very fine edge and is easy to sharpen but it doesn't last much longer than 12c27 and certainly wouldn't compete with some of the CPM steels and others that are highly alloyed and have many carbides. It is a tradeoff between small fine carbides (aeb-l) and larger ones CPM154 s30v etc. I think for kitchen knives easy to sharpen and getting super sharp are better than holding the edge forever, as the people who buy expensive kitchen knives generally sharpen them regularly and have access to stones. For a field knife I can see the advantage in a longer lasting edge.

 

I think Niolox is pretty hot now and other niobium steels. I bought some from Achim Wirtz but lost my workshop before I could make any knives from it. Same with some Becut I got from Bestar.

Edited by AlexH

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I think Niolox is pretty hot now and other niobium steels. I bought some from Achim Wirtz but lost my workshop before I could make any knives from it. Same with some Becut I got from Bestar.

 

Often wondered if niobium would help knife steels. Columbus has been using it in their Nivacrom bicycle tubes since about 1980 I think. They claim that it prevents grain growth from heat at the welds and keeps a uniform distribution of carbides for strength.

 

If I ever break the frame on my old Raleigh, maybe I can forge the remains into a blade. :)

Edited by HSJackson

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Often wondered if niobium would help knife steels. Columbus has been using it in their Nivacrom bicycle tubes since about 1980 I think. They claim that it prevents grain growth from heat at the welds and keeps a uniform distribution of carbides for strength.

 

If I ever break the frame on my old Raleigh, maybe I can forge the remains into a blade. :)

 

Ha, two problems

 

1) that frame will probably never break

 

2) you'd have to add some carbon

 

:D

 

I've got an 1993 Kona Hot, hand made in the USA from Tange Prestige Ultimate Ultrastrong, a Nivacrom competitor. Not sure of the composition of that though.

 

Seems you were right Ni would be a good additive. Looking forward to the time I can work on some of it.

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Nb, you mean. Ni is nickel. Interesting, all the same.

 

Darn :)

 

Have you worked with it or do you have any plans to work with any Nb steels Howard?

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AEB-L = 13C26 not 12C27 Mike.

 

I use AEB-L on most of my kitchen knives >60HRC and like it. I disagree with the comment about insane edge holding though. IMO and experience its advantage is that it will take a very fine edge and is easy to sharpen but it doesn't last much longer than 12c27 and certainly wouldn't compete with some of the CPM steels and others that are highly alloyed and have many carbides. It is a tradeoff between small fine carbides (aeb-l) and larger ones CPM154 s30v etc. I think for kitchen knives easy to sharpen and getting super sharp are better than holding the edge forever, as the people who buy expensive kitchen knives generally sharpen them regularly and have access to stones. For a field knife I can see the advantage in a longer lasting edge.

 

I think Niolox is pretty hot now and other niobium steels. I bought some from Achim Wirtz but lost my workshop before I could make any knives from it. Same with some Becut I got from Bestar.

 

OT, but- I have some ferroniobium here. Apparently it is one step in the process of refining niobium ore, and it crumbles like damp sugar cubes. Not as strong as stale bread. This is not on-topic but if you see ferroniobium for sale it is useless without refininement...unless you want to make glitter.

Brian

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there is also GNiCr40Al4, a chinese version of Ni-Cr alloy. it has non magnetic, non cold brittleness, very very corro-risisting, and very very wear resistance. it is an age hardening non-ferrous alloy, provide hardness of hrc 58 after solution at 1200°C follow by aging at 600~650°C. if cold deformation is done, the hardness can be increasing up to 67hrc at 90%deformation. yield strength at hrc 58 is 2500 Mpa, of bending strength is 4116~4253Mpa. the unnotched impact toughness is 40j/cm^2.

 

it contains 55%Ni, 40%cr, 3%Al. it was used as ball bearing tools in submarines in russia before 1990s. and during coldwar era, usa was using it as shafts on their height meters. right now toshiba has the patent of producting the alloy in usa i think. but i haven't seen any of the alloy shows on steel market.

Edited by qiangluo

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