C Craft Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I want to attempt to make some Damascus using some chain saw chains that I happen to have. So there it is I have the want to and the chains. Now what is the process from there? This is not something I plan to do tomorrow. Right now I am doing my research into the process and trying to get materials together1 Can anyone tell me what would be the best steel to marry the chainsaw chains with? I will be working with limited knowledge and hand forging, and doing oil quench. So please no exotic steels that require quenches that I am unable to do at this time. This will be a first attempt for myself so if I seem clueless, I am! I need someone to kind of walk me thru the entire process, because at this point I am not sure where to start. Or for that matter even how to handle the chains. I mean it is not like they come in a bar state. Do I start by hammering the chains into a bar? Should I flux the steels while welding together? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Before you bash me, remember we were all clueless once! I am posting this on a couple of sites so as too solicit as much knowledge as possible on the subject. C Craft Customs ~~~ With every custom knife I build I try to accomplish three things. I want that knife to look so good you just have to pick it up, feel so good in your hand you can't wait to try it, and once you use it, you never want to put it down ! If I capture those three factors in each knife I build, I am assured the knife will become a piece that is used and treasured by its owner! ~~~ C Craft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragoncutlery Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 i was never clueless dropped in to this world with full knowledge ok you got me any who one i would degrease them non chlorinated parts cleaner or acetone or the like there was a fela who used a water and flux (borax) solution on cable to let it soak in that might help here to pre prep the blades also im liking boric acid mixed with my borax for a low temp kick to my flux (gets it fluxing sooner) as for steel to mix with its hard to go wrong with a 1070ish steel i would find out the length of your forges forgwelding hot spot and cut the chain in to lengths that can be heated up and worked in one heat then using the paddle method stack the prepped chains on a pice of 1070(wire it to it or weld the ends)left long to use for a handle sprinkle flux heat sprinkle more flux return to heat ect ect till it reaches welding temp remove from heat and beat the ever loving flux out of it repeat as needed and fold it a few times as well Brandon Sawisch bladesmith eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked in to jet engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Stephens Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 First, I wouldn't recommend trying chainsaw damascus as your first pattern welding attempt. It's a bit tricky. Cable damascus is probably the easiest first attempt. With straight pattern welded laminate being second, IMO. I'd recommend you do a couple of things: 1-Do a bit of research in the archives on this forum. There are literally dozens of step-by-step pattern welding demonstrations. By reading through them, you'll get a pretty good idea of the process. 2-Pick up a copy of The Complete Bladesmith and read the sections on pattern welding (he has a chapter on cable damascus as well). 3-After you've done that, post some questions to the forum on the specific areas in which you are still confused or are stuck. This is cool forum, with tons of very helpful and talented bladesmiths, but it's considered polite to do some research on what has already been posted first. Cheers! Dave -----------------------------------------------"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelthttp://stephensforge.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Craft Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) Well first off I was not trying to be impolite to anyone! Since I did not know anything about trying chain Damascus I figured the Beginners Place would be a good place to post this topic. I was only looking for the advice that experience teaches you! I have learned over the years that you can save yourself a lot of headaches by learning from the experiences of others. When they take the time to tell you where they made their mistakes! I truly have done some research on Damascus and I do get the basic process for Damascus but was unable to find out a lot about the chain Damascus. Never having seen either process done or done it myself I was just trying to take a little of the curve out of the learning curve. I have already learned that this may be above beginner’s level. I did not realize that chain Damascus was even more complicated, than regular Damascus. It just seemed like a good use for the large number of chainsaw chains I have acquired over the years. I got a post on another forum and he agreed with Dave saying that chain Damascus was not a good place to start. He also explained why and now I really do get it! This gentleman took the time to explain the why the chain Damascus was problematic and then explained the entire process. Thus allowing me a starting place if I felt I wanted to pursue chain Damascus. However his first offered up this advice. "My first suggestion would be to not try chainsaw chain right out of the gate....there is just too many variables, and lots of potential for failure. Straight laminates are the way to start out....your chances for success and learning are much greater. Something like 1/8" 1080 and .050-.070" 15N20. I always try to do some research on something I know little about to aid in learning. So I think I will take his advice and start off with a straight laminate Damascus. Thanks to all for your replies! Edited October 4, 2010 by C Craft C Craft Customs ~~~ With every custom knife I build I try to accomplish three things. I want that knife to look so good you just have to pick it up, feel so good in your hand you can't wait to try it, and once you use it, you never want to put it down ! If I capture those three factors in each knife I build, I am assured the knife will become a piece that is used and treasured by its owner! ~~~ C Craft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Stephens Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 No worries! I didn't mean to imply you were being intentionally impolite or anything. Every forum has it's own culture. I think you're wise to try straight laminate damascus first. Again, I can't recommend Dr. Hrisoulos' book _The Complete Bladesmith_ enough. If you do a search on "first billet" (with quotations) or the terms "WIP" or "Tutorial" on our forum, you'll pull up a lot of threads with great information. Luck! Dave -----------------------------------------------"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelthttp://stephensforge.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzetools Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I have tried to make chain damascus out of several different types of chain. I have always had problems with inclusions from scale forming in the voids of the chain to the point that I had to draw ,cut and stack several times to get a very high percentage of reduction of volume compared to the original dimensions to minimize the effect. I used plenty of anhydrous borax flux and it seemed to only help a little. I have had great successes by getting a 3"x3"x 4 inch long mild steel tube and filling it with 4" long pieces of chain and welding ends then a handle on it. Since you are just getting going you probably do not have any powder metal but that also works well to fill in the voids of the chain in the can. Chain has been tough for me except when welded in a "Can" Good Luck and let us know how it goes. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Craft Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 I have tried to make chain damascus out of several different types of chain. I have always had problems with inclusions from scale forming in the voids of the chain to the point that I had to draw ,cut and stack several times to get a very high percentage of reduction of volume compared to the original dimensions to minimize the effect. I used plenty of anhydrous borax flux and it seemed to only help a little. I have had great successes by getting a 3"x3"x 4 inch long mild steel tube and filling it with 4" long pieces of chain and welding ends then a handle on it. Since you are just getting going you probably do not have any powder metal but that also works well to fill in the voids of the chain in the can. Chain has been tough for me except when welded in a "Can" Good Luck and let us know how it goes. Steve Inclusions were one of the main drawbacks mentioned by the MS that offered up the advice. I had not thought about it but I can see where this would be a problem. Look I think I have to learn to crawl with Damascus, then walk, and then run! Therefore I am going to try a straight laminates out of something like 1/8" 1080 and .50-.70% 15N20. My thanks to all who have replied to this thread. I am already learning and hopefully one day I will have personal knowledge of the subject to impart on someone inspiring to make Damascus! C Craft Customs ~~~ With every custom knife I build I try to accomplish three things. I want that knife to look so good you just have to pick it up, feel so good in your hand you can't wait to try it, and once you use it, you never want to put it down ! If I capture those three factors in each knife I build, I am assured the knife will become a piece that is used and treasured by its owner! ~~~ C Craft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John N Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Ill second (or 3rd / 4th??? ) what everyone else has said, Chains are really tricky coz of the voids. Cable is a good (and cheap) place to start, and will give you a pretty solid understanding of the temperatures etc you are shooting for. Ive only had one decent flawless billet welding chainsaw chain outside of a can, and that was by having a smoking white gas forge about 12" from a power hammer! The 'entertaining' bit of welding chain is the dozens of little burning links that go flying around the shop when you get it wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogan Baker Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I just welded up some chain saw blades as my first damascus, and it was pretty hard, plus it was all full of flaws. I think that I, just like you, am going to do some regular old straight laminate. The MS that C Craft is refurring to is Ed Caffrey and you can read his wonderfully written out replies here Good Luck, Hogan Baker "Stale water is poor drink. Stale skill is worse. And the man who walks in his own footsteps only ends where he began." My Etsy shop My blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now