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blacklionknives

quenching/differential heat treating a sword blade

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The good news is that leaf spring steels can usually be HT'd the same and get similar results, i.e. something reasonably springy that's fine for a European-style sword.

 

It's when you start getting into the fine details like differential HT and such that you really need to know what alloy you have. For instance, it's difficult to get anything like a hamon on 5160, but 9260 does it a bit more easily and 1075 does it very well indeed, and I don't know about 6150. That's all related to the shallow vs. deep hardening mentioned above, so yes, this will be on the test. ;)

 

Finally, the 1970 edition of the ASTM heat-treaters' guide listed something like nine different steels suggested for use as leaf spring stock. :blink: Again, they will all respond to the same HT within a specified range of performance so the manufacturers can use them interchangeably. For leaf springs, that is. Bladesmiths tend to be a little more demanding in their specs.

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I thought about doing a quick thumbnail sketch of what goes on with steel during heat treating but I think that I'll just confuse things for you more. Right now that will leave you with the option of just learning how to cookbook things without a real understanding of what is going on or learning about basic steel metallurgy. If you feel like you are ready to take the plunge into the subject I would recommend "Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist" by John Verhoeven. This is like the Cliff Notes on the subject; about two semesters of study distilled down to about 200 pages. This is not an inexpensive book but the last that I checked it could be had at Amazon. This is a text book that is set up to aid in studying, and I assure you, this is a study. Once through will not do it. But then is bladesmithy is a study too. John Verhoeven previously had published on line a very similar work. I don't have a link to it or know the exact title so you might have to do a search by the author's name. I do know that there has been some quesion as to whether or not that that link violates the copywright of the book. Some say that the link is in the public domain but others have claimed that it is essentially the same as the book and that once the book was sold to the publisher the rights to use previous web document ended. I don't know which is the case but I thought that it is worth mentioning.

 

Let me make one other suggestion-slow down. I think that you are trying to learn too much at one time. I know because I've been there and done that and have the ruined steel to prove it. Right now knives are a good possiblity but I would put off making swords until you have knifemaking down fairly well.

 

Doug Lester

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My recommendation for a sword-length double-edged blade of 5160 is a point-first full quench in warm oil followed by tempering the whole thing to around 450 degrees F. This will give you a very tough, springy, yet hard blade.-alan-

 

i called around and went by a steel yard and got a 4" pipe 35 inches long. i intend to work on the profile with some grinders, an old trendle grinding stone and see if my wee forge will achieve non magnetic on the aforementioned 29 0r so inch blade dip quench in 170 degree fahrenheit beef fat and candle wax bake at 400, 450,...watching the colors and barely going from straw to light blue...

 

so, this brings me to my next observation, recolection and question.

 

observation: after normalizing the blade appears(over the last week or so)to be gaining a bit more of a tweak/twist in a particular area that i noticed before but not so extreme...my eyes playing tricks as i obsess on the edge:)perhaps i dont know.

 

recolection: heat cycles...i remember reading about 24 hr cooling cycles. for instance, after quenching or even normalizing???, allow the blade to reside in the freezer for 24 hrs to bring it to a fully...cold condition before concluding it is "done cooling".

 

question: is it possible my blade was not done cooling and moving to its forever stable, if you will, condition? or is that more primative superstition(edit: i just found a quote from ed fowlers website..."Your blade was differentially hardened three times at 24 hour intervals, then tempered three times again in three days. Twenty four hour cycles between hardening and tempering heats have proven to produce better blades. Each night the blade was placed in the freezer of my refrigerator. These hardening and tempering methods were carefully developed for our steel worked our way through many experimental blades tested to destruction."...perhaps his steal responds different though)

so ? have you ever noticed this or heard of freezing a blade

 

...and as for syudieing heat treating, thanks for the title and author.

as for waiting to start making swords,...we'll see how i feel when i fall off the horse :D ,

 

thanks again everyone,

edwin

 

p.s.

i know this isnt rocket science,...but, all those years at nasa cant go to waste. :)

Edited by blacklionknives

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I thought about doing a quick thumbnail sketch of what goes on with steel during heat treating but I think that I'll just confuse things for you more. Right now that will leave you with the option of just learning how to cookbook things without a real understanding of what is going on or learning about basic steel metallurgy. If you feel like you are ready to take the plunge into the subject I would recommend "Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist" by John Verhoeven. This is like the Cliff Notes on the subject; about two semesters of study distilled down to about 200 pages. This is not an inexpensive book but the last that I checked it could be had at Amazon. This is a text book that is set up to aid in studying, and I assure you, this is a study. Once through will not do it. But then is bladesmithy is a study too. John Verhoeven previously had published on line a very similar work. I don't have a link to it or know the exact title so you might have to do a search by the author's name. I do know that there has been some quesion as to whether or not that that link violates the copywright of the book. Some say that the link is in the public domain but others have claimed that it is essentially the same as the book and that once the book was sold to the publisher the rights to use previous web document ended. I don't know which is the case but I thought that it is worth mentioning.

 

Let me make one other suggestion-slow down. I think that you are trying to learn too much at one time. I know because I've been there and done that and have the ruined steel to prove it. Right now knives are a good possiblity but I would put off making swords until you have knifemaking down fairly well.

 

Doug Lester

thanks for your suggestion, i would love to see a sketch, will read as possible and love to fail...theodore roosevelt has a great quote about failing. if i recall its in this thread somewhere...(edit...ah, here it is:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelt

so, thanks dave,father of ealric,(sorry for highjacking your signature :)my sifu had this on his wall years ago and it spoke to me then and is motivating as pre battle bagpipes even now )

 

 

blessings,

edwin

Edited by blacklionknives

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At the risk of opening up a can of worms, I think that many people would say the Ed Fowler's 24hr heat treating cycle with an overnight cryotreatment in the freezer does no harm but probably does no good. If one wants to do cryotreatment, which can beniffit some steels, it should be done with liquid nitrogen or a dry ice, alcohol/acetone bath plus there is not reason to do it overnight. Keep in mind though, additional hardness will also come at the price of additional brittleness. Just about everything in knifemaking, especially heat treating is a trade off.

 

I too have had a blade warp after normalizing and hardening. If you are going to make knifes, you are going to have to learn how to straighten the blades. Sometimes I have gotten by with cold straightening; sometimes I have be rewarded with the dreaded "tink". Sometimes I have had to go back and renormalize, straighten, reharden, and retemper. It is probably due to the original normalization not completely relieving stress that had built up in the blade. I've even had the blade warp during tempering. Just part of the fun of making knives.

 

I didn't listen either when I was told to start out with short blades, have fun. Just remember, the longer the blade the more problem you will have in getting and keeping it straight.

 

Doug Lester

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I agree with Doug on this. Mr. Fowler makes good blades, don't get me wrong, but there are those in the metallurgy field who think the extra time and freezer treatment don't really do anything. It's all in what works for you. ;) Certain alloys, particularly stainless ones, do benefit from a liquid nitrogen treatment. Low-alloy carbon steels generally don't.

 

I'd also go a little past the first blue range into the darker blue. That's just insurance. A sword that breaks during a cut becomes a dangerous projectile, one that bends is just disappointing but can be straightened back out.

 

Finally, swords warp. That's part of life. If you want to be a swordsmith you just need to learn how to correct the inevitable warping. A pair of notched hardwood sticks used as bending forks is one way, three pins in the vise is another, or even the old baseball bat on a dished wooden stump can do the job.

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The reason that one wants to temper a sword blade a little softer is that a sword is not a long knife. They actually funtion more closely to an ax and are subject to more impact and used a little less for slicing. You want to go a little more towards a tough temper even if edge holding ability is sacrificed a little. Obviously you can't go overboard on this with a cutting or a cut and thrust sword but a purely thrusting sword like a rapier (a weapon that is useless in war and teaches our friends to kill each other in peace-G. Silver) can go a little softer but more springy. Blade making is all about trade-offs and compromises.

 

Doug Lester

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well,

i put mine in the freezer for a few hrs just for fun after i worked on the profile and normalized.

i got 6 pounds of beef suet, and some candles at good will.

i am cookin and there i am with the ready to quench blade.

this is fun.

thanks again guys.

will quench tomorow.

drumroll please...

 

and thats o salut w the sword done as good as a redneck can:)

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weell,

its today and i am almost ready

i will turn my forge on end and preheat quenchant muck ...

anything else i'm forgetting, oh well i'll remember later for next time :)

 

i posted 2 pics.

the first is before and after materials:

railroad spike, railroad bolt,and truck leaf spring. all from 6,000+ year old earth :D

 

the other is the forge and quenchant tank.

 

this is fun!!!!!!!!

junk to sword 001.JPG

junk to sword 002.JPG

Edited by blacklionknives

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I agree with Doug on this. Mr. Fowler makes good blades, don't get me wrong, but there are those in the metallurgy field who think the extra time and freezer treatment don't really do anything. It's all in what works for you. ;) Certain alloys, particularly stainless ones, do benefit from a liquid nitrogen treatment. Low-alloy carbon steels generally don't.

 

I'd also go a little past the first blue range into the darker blue. That's just insurance. A sword that breaks during a cut becomes a dangerous projectile, one that bends is just disappointing but can be straightened back out.

 

Finally, swords warp. That's part of life. If you want to be a swordsmith you just need to learn how to correct the inevitable warping. A pair of notched hardwood sticks used as bending forks is one way, three pins in the vise is another, or even the old baseball bat on a dished wooden stump can do the job.

 

 

at what temp will i correct straighten.450 or so?

and i need a bigger oven to temper i think...i will use my torch but how will i hold temp for an hr...i love these challenges B)

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Let me start off with saying that I am truely impressed that you have be able to do so well on your first sword blade. However (don't you just love "howevers"), I'm wondering how you are going to get an even heat with the forge that you have. It may be a challenge with something that short. The temperature will need to be even from the tip to the blade shoulders and you will have to hold it at non-magnetic for about a minute before plunging the blade into the quenchant. The blade must be above non-magnetic and evenly heated when it enters the quench tank. Uneven heating can cause warping. You might need to contruct a longer forge that hold and apply heat evenly to the entire blade.

 

As far as straightening goes you can do it hot between normalization cycles or immediately after removing from a tempering oven. It is also possible to cold straighten a blade. Of course, the cooler the steel the more likely it will be that you will hear the dreaded "tink". When I was at the Mad Dwarf hammer-in this summer there were smiths that were cold straightening sword blade over the edge of an anvil.

 

Doug Lester

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Let me start off with saying that I am truely impressed that you have be able to do so well on your first sword blade. However (don't you just love "howevers"), I'm wondering how you are going to get an even heat with the forge that you have. It may be a challenge with something that short. The temperature will need to be even from the tip to the blade shoulders and you will have to hold it at non-magnetic for about a minute before plunging the blade into the quenchant. The blade must be above non-magnetic and evenly heated when it enters the quench tank. Uneven heating can cause warping. You might need to contruct a longer forge that hold and apply heat evenly to the entire blade.

 

As far as straightening goes you can do it hot between normalization cycles or immediately after removing from a tempering oven. It is also possible to cold straighten a blade. Of course, the cooler the steel the more likely it will be that you will hear the dreaded "tink". When I was at the Mad Dwarf hammer-in this summer there were smiths that were cold straightening sword blade over the edge of an anvil.

 

Doug Lester

 

whew, i turned my forge on end and it heats different now(not to mention it started snowing)

that was annoying,

ran out of propane...

that slowed me down a wee bit :wacko:

 

then i did not get non magnetic for the whole blade, only the 9" nearest the tip. i decided to quence since it took hrs to melt the goop :(

[and it seemed apropriate to proceed being christ the king sunday and i had a baptism to go to and i was baptizing my sword in fire and oil...significance makes lore of coincidence, i think.]

so i have pearlite on the rest? what happens when you dont reach critical temp???(definate forge modification required.)

i think the vertical thing screwed me up as i can reach critical on the whole thing when horizontal(and its not 30 degrees outside).

???

i attached pics to show the interesting scale responses on both sides as there is an identical pattern in reverse on both sides.any thoughts on why when i edge quench a short blade i notice that to so i imagine i have different "kinds" of steel where thhe scale disappeared as apposed to where it stayed...almost a mirror image on both sides?

 

also the pc camera(my friend stoped by to video and left with the camera in his pocket when the propane ran out)really shows the slight wavyness in blade(should come out in the grinding wheeling)

 

there is a slight slight slight curve 3" from end(flat on one side at tip on one side, 3/16"gap on other side)

i will straighten when it coves out of the...oh yeah(did i say i love challenges :D )where will i find a toaster for a 36 1/2" blade

 

over all a good day

thanks for the compliment(once youve seen a mile ran in 4 minutes, many runner's seems to do it, thanks to all you guys who have done this for years, it makes it easier to know it can be done)

 

blessings,

edwin

Picture0397.jpg

Picture0398.jpg

Picture0399.jpg

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Looking really good. Great job on a first sword.

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That IS a nice job on your first sword blade!

 

Now then: Getting to critical temp while horizontal is perfectly fine, only the quench needs to be vertical.

 

Those areas where the scale popped off on both sides are fully hardened, the rest is not. As long as it skates a file when the scale is off it's reasonably close enough.

 

You can straighten hot right out of the quench (and I wouldn't use the goop, I'd get canola oil or something, I use straight vet-grade mineral oil for leaf spring), or cold AFTER tempering. Do not try to straighten cold before tempering.

 

Finally, while oven-tempering is ideal, I don't have one big enough for a sword blade either. I use a propane torch and do it three times for insurance. Yeah, I know, I'm not guaranteed of total transformation of retained austenite that way, but you do what you can with what you have, eh? ;)

 

Again, nice job on the forging.

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i may give it another whirl on the quench as the file test revealed:

from tip to 18" a skating file.

from 19-29 alot tougher(less hard) <_<

so its beyond the 1295 era i was shooting for in the beginning...beyond differential too.haha(its all in the perspective right)

what i mean is it has alot of toughness(hopefully not to soft) where it needs it and very hard wher it would do the most cutting...which might all be mute since we have much more civilized ways of dispatching bad people nowadays. :blink:

 

so i will think it over and chew on all this and may give it another shot when it warms up a bit???

 

then the sheath and all the other stuff.

any links for sheaths would be apreciated as i dont have many ideas yet other than looking really old. the sheath that is.

 

blessings,

edwin

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well,

the blade was not springy

it would not return to straight when i bent it.

it would get a kink/bend in the middle so i rehardened it.

 

i will test the straightening methods next as i just quenched again and got great results.

it was warmer today so i leveled out the forge and heated to non magnetic and...oh yes i have not been able to(bring myself to)spend any money on the vet grade oil.

i noticed the really the goop had a sword blade shaped hole in the goop so i heated the outside w a torch and the inside with the blade to bring it to 170. which seems to be the only thing i dont like about the goop. it gets hard and is hard to soften. as i add more oil it is easier to soften. and leaving the blade in to cool until hard allows me to heat it easier:)

 

so,...

i have zero scale on the blade except an inch or so by the base of blade by the crossguard

that scale scraped off with my finger nail and i trust will skate a file.

 

i got more curvature on this one too. much better heat and radical quench.

 

also i had fun, prior to requenching, by heating to blue, sanding and buffing as well as scabbard research.

fun to come thanks again all.

 

edwin

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Edwin,

congrats , you are a self learner.... now you know what happends when you don't take the the whole blade up to critical temp for hardening..biggrin.gif Good on you for keeping at it ... Alan is correct about the triple tempering with a torch.. It's what you have to do if you don't have a oven handy.. One extra word on that... you need white metal (freshly sanded or filed) to see the true temper colors... and you need to sand back to white metal each cycle you temper... so once you have hardened the blade sand it clean so you will be able to see the temper colors... let it cool to room temp and sand fresh again and then temper... If you already have temp colors visable on the steel and you try to temper again before you sand them off you will not get a true reading of the heat you putting into the blade..

It is fun eh? You have a good attitude about the frustration of not getting it right and starting over... That will serve you well.biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

 

Dick

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Edwin,

congrats , you are a self learner.... now you know what happends when you don't take the the whole blade up to critical temp for hardening.. Good on you for keeping at it ... Alan is correct about the triple tempering with a torch.. It's what you have to do if you don't have a oven handy.. One extra word on that... you need white metal (freshly sanded or filed) to see the true temper colors... and you need to sand back to white metal each cycle you temper... so once you have hardened the blade sand it clean so you will be able to see the temper colors... let it cool to room temp and sand fresh again and then temper... If you already have temp colors visable on the steel and you try to temper again before you sand them off you will not get a true reading of the heat you putting into the blade..

It is fun eh? You have a good attitude about the frustration of not getting it right and starting over... That will serve you well.

 

Dick,

i am so encouraged by your words.

i wish i had seen this before i proceeded on sunday.

i proceeded half cocked and it broke.

:o

it will only be two inches shorter though

i wish i had read about the 3 x temper thing.

that makes sense.

wayne goddard cooks in oven for an hr 3 x's

so why would 1 time with a torch do the trick i ask myself :wacko:

 

oh well.

i remember hearing that japanese swords some times have a scabbard twice as long as the sword to have a deceptive quicker than expected draw, ...well, now i know the real reason :lol: jk, but that will be my story as i already started the scabbard and will leave it the original length. :)

 

that sucker was not easy to break.

 

to my shame i got so frustrated it would not straighten i was sort of expecting it to break.

the fact it was bending so far and not staying bent/straight but would return to original curve should have told me it was still tooooooo haaaaaard!!!!!!

 

but i do know this:

that thing could have not been broken if struck by another sword. i mean i weigh 230 something or more and i had 2 inches in a log :lol: (stupid i know)and it was all i could do to break it!

 

usually i get angry when i see demo/destruction tests on youtube but part of me feels better having tested it to failure.

 

anyway, it will still be my first sword ever and when tempered it will be strong not just hard.

 

i may temper it more than 3 times to be safe, and will not bend so far if it keeps returning to original curve.

 

i need to reread goddards section on testing and heat treatment as it has been so long.

and yes,

attitude is everything, no caveman temper tantrum hammer throughing alowed :lol:

i sure do miss that original hammer forged tip though :(o well, nextime

 

edwin

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Edwin,

Mistakes are the best way to learn... you can learn a lot by looking at the grain structure of the broken ends... It will show you how well you did with refining the grain during normalization ... you might also see a beginning of a crack on the edge where it broke.... you could also have the perfect grain size and no cracks in the blade and it still would break if it wasn't tempered correctly...

Not throwing the temper gives new meaning to tempering your attitude ehbiggrin.gif ... related to tempering the steel so it remains "together" when pushed to extreams.. like that rap song

"don't push me"

" cause I'm close to the edge"

 

controlling your temper comes with age and wisdom.... the blade tempering heats of how hot and how long are the age and wisdom of the end of the process of heat treating...

 

are you keeping notes? So you can refer back to what you have done... it is easy to forget what steps you have taken a year ago, or an hour, which ever the case may bebiggrin.gif

 

it is easier to avoid making the same mistakes over if you have some notes... doesn't protect against new mistakes thoulaugh.gif

Dick

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I'd also go a little past the first blue range into the darker blue. That's just insurance. A sword that breaks during a cut becomes a dangerous projectile, one that bends is just disappointing but can be straightened back out.

 

Finally, swords warp. That's part of life. If you want to be a swordsmith you just need to learn how to correct the inevitable warping. A pair of notched hardwood sticks used as bending forks is one way, three pins in the vise is another, or even the old baseball bat on a dished wooden stump can do the job.

 

 

alan,

im not sure what you mean...

when i heat to blue it seems to go back to strawish brown after blue... is that too far or do i go farther and wait for blue again.

i dont want to go to hot and loose my quench altogether.

 

???

i suppose i could test a piece of spring, hmmm. just wanted to know what you meant by "past the first blue range into the darker blue".

 

alan and dick, if the time of an hour (3x)is helpful, shouldnt i sand and reblue for an hr 3x's in order to get the molecular structure change necessary and desired.

 

edwin

Edited by blacklionknives

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Edwin,

Yes the best way for you to learn the tempering colors is to clean a piece of steel and then heat it from one end and observe the different colors as you get further from the heat... it will become very obvious as to were the colors fall into the order of how hot it was...

 

The three times tempering is mostly for when you are tempering with a torch or other means other than a furnace or heat treating oven.....when you are tempering with a torch or over and open flame you are heating the blade till it gets to your desired temper color and then letting it cool down to room temp. then you sand off the temper colors to white metal and do it all over again... it is done three times to insure you get all the steel to the correct temper... so as to "even out" where it may not have gotten quite hot enough on one pass.... Usually if you are tempering in an oven you cook it for an hour and then let cool to room temp and then most people temper for a second hour long cycle also ... The oven is the easiest way of tempering if your over temps are correct and even... the reason you do it three times with the torch is cause you are not holding it at temperature for a hour but just a quick heat up and cool down so the three times are meant to insure you got it up to the correct temper color for a proper amount of time....

 

you don't have to sand it each time you put it in your oven if you are sure of you oven temperatures... it is nice to see the colors regardless thou... but if you are tempering by torch you need fresh clean metal for each tempering cycle so you can tell how hot you are getting it....

 

Dick

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To piggy back one Richard's post. If you use an oven to temper your blades make sure that you regulate your oven with a thermometer on the same rack that you put the blade one. I would also keep the blade high in the oven, not just above the heating element. That way the heat will spread out more in your oven before hitting the blade. A tray of sand, pre-heated with the oven, will also serve as a heat sink to buffer the rise and fall of the temperature as the heating coil cycles. That trick comes in real handy in a toaster oven which has a much smaller mass of hot air.

 

Personally, I think that it is better to do three, two hour cycles to oven temper. To be honest I have not compared it myself to just two, one hour cycles but enough more experienced knife makers than me do it so I copy them. Let me add that I do use 9260 that is a high silicon alloy. The silicon content promotes the retention of austinite on quenching so the extra time and cycles seems to me to be a bit of insurance that it converts to martinsite and is then tempered. I'm kind of kicking around the idea of adding cryo to the tempering cycle with it.

 

Doug Lester

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alan,

im not sure what you mean...

when i heat to blue it seems to go back to strawish brown after blue... is that too far or do i go farther and wait for blue again.

i dont want to go to hot and loose my quench altogether.

 

???

i suppose i could test a piece of spring, hmmm. just wanted to know what you meant by "past the first blue range into the darker blue".

 

I've never seen the colors run backwards... :huh: It should go from yellowish to brownish to peacock blue to fully dark almost navy blue to a very light sky blue, then after that you've blown it. Do what Dick said about sanding to bare steel between heats. The reason for multiple heats is to fully transform all the retained austenite, and ideally an oven or furnace (or a salt pot!) would be nice. Those of us without learn to use other methods, of course. ;) It will still be harder than you want after the first couple of cycles.

 

The test for proper sword temper on a double-edged Euro-type blade is to put the point on a block of wood, hold the tang in one hand, and push down on the middle of the flat of the blade with your other hand. The blade ought to bend pretty easily for the first inch or three, the progressively stiffen up, i.e. get harder to push down on. The bend from tip to tang should be as close to a perfect even curve as possible. Any spots that bend further are too soft, any straight spots are too hard. It's better for the blade to stay bent than for it to snap, but ideally it won't stay bent. No biggie if it does, that's annoying but historically accurate. :lol:

 

How far should you try to flex it? On that blade in particular, it ought to be able to snap back to true on its own after being pushed down around 6 to 8 inches in the center. If you're feeling skilled you can try for the full circle bend-and-return, but I'm not that good yet. ;) I recommend wrapping the tang with tape, wearing gloves, and cutting lots of small to medium brush with it to get a feel for how it flexes and sings in the hand when used. Or you could try the Albion test of cutting notches in the rim of a 55-gallon drum... :lol: I'm pretty sure my last sword wouldn't do that well on that test, I got it a little too soft. :rolleyes:

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thank you richard doug and alan,

i see the value of a large very controlable oven and my church might be scrapping an old boiler...hmmmmmmm, now i just need a HUGE shop...10-4 on the 3x although i still dont know who martin site is.jk..someday it will all make sense.i have yet to read anything but the cave scratchings of the cliff notes of the books of the masters...

 

i really appreciate the comments.

 

the only update or comment at this time is my puzzlement regarding the color i am looking for/looking at:

i cleaned the rust off of the spring from wence this sword blade came and i heated it to blue...and beyond.

 

the puzzling thing is as i heated it past the blue, i wouldnt say it went backwards, i would say it started over.

it went back to steel, yellow, purple, and then what i thought was an aqua marine almost greenish blue.

it was amazing in fact when i felt i had enough of a test area, i stoped and the best way i can describe how it looked is to say it looked like a double rainbow if you have ever seen one in the sky. the area between straw and blue on first specrum was 1/2" then 1/4" yellow, then straw to blue again. about an inch from straw/steel to second blue. i need to do it again as i left it outside and it rusted over night. i should have laquered it and saved it i suppose. :o wait, i'll do it again ^_^

 

 

again im puzzled you have never seen it cause , well, its the only thing i have seen :D

 

now the good news.

i had to stop and go somewhere.

when i came back i sanded a few inches and "reheated" the area i stoped and proceeded to temper to my"second rainbow blue" and work my way up the 28" piece.

next i decided to try to straighten it using these heats.i put it in my vice and bent it to center and beyond to the same curve the other way(the spring is still in its original curve)

and the spring returned to its original curveEXCEPT for a spot or two where i might have overlaped or lingered a wee longer???i,m guessing...but in a spot it remained straight :blink:

 

and the best news is none of it stayed "hyperextended"

 

so what about the double color spectrum?

is it possible i have a serious mystery steel, x-ray vision,...or what.

 

if i get raided by nasa tonight that would be a strong indicator of something, but what?

 

fun, fun, fun :D

thanks again gentlemen, scholars, and smiths,

i am in your debt,

and posterity will learn of the wise ones not yet met,

edwin :)

 

p.s.if my pc was not down i would try to send a photo if i could capture it on a pic. i know i saw it, didnt i :unsure:

 

p.p.s.rise and rise again ntil lambs become lions -robin hoods dad-

Edited by blacklionknives

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Edwin,

It sounds like you are heating up one section of the blade at a time and then moving on to the next.... I suppose that would work but would be hard to keep track of where exactly those colors were located...I assumed you were heating the whole length of the blade at once which is how I'm sure Alan was thinking as well.... That is the traditional way to do it... to heat the whole blade at one time and then bring it down to room temp. and go again for another cycle...

It's never too late to start over with the heat treating if you were to decide too... yes it does set you back in time but you can get another chance if you decide to..biggrin.gif

I should also add that in the process of heating the whole length of the blade if one section starts to get too hot you can quench it and sand and start over... which is more or less what you have already done heating small sections at a time ... it is tricky getting a whole length up to the same temp.. the trick is the patience to go slow smile.gif....

 

I should add I cheat and use a salt pot..wink.gif so I don't have the problems of heat distribution in the oven, I should have remembered that... Doug's ideas were good ones for an oven...

 

Dick

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