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Heart break


Felipe
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Hi guys I need some help, recently I finished welding this sanmai core 5160 sides cable,and finish yesterday of welding, and normalizing but today I see the core is broken,not welds, the core.

 

Any have a idea????

 

All the work was by hand no power machines only elbow grease

 

Thanks a Lot and sorry for my english

 

Saludos desde Mexico

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Saludos, Felipe, and I feel your pain. :(

 

That happens with 5160 and other deep-hardening alloys when mixed with shallow-hardening steels. I know Ariel Salaviera makes that work, but I don't know how. Maybe a thinner core?

 

The only thing I can recommend when using those two steels is to let it cool SLOWLY in a bucket of ashes or something to fully anneal rather than just normalize, and quench faster than slower if possible when you are finally done. I know Beau Erwin (Edgar Figaro) was having this problem recently with 1095 and wrought iron, maybe he can offer some further assistance.

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Saludos, Felipe, and I feel your pain. :(

 

That happens with 5160 and other deep-hardening alloys when mixed with shallow-hardening steels. I know Ariel Salaviera makes that work, but I don't know how. Maybe a thinner core?

 

The only thing I can recommend when using those two steels is to let it cool SLOWLY in a bucket of ashes or something to fully anneal rather than just normalize, and quench faster than slower if possible when you are finally done. I know Beau Erwin (Edgar Figaro) was having this problem recently with 1095 and wrought iron, maybe he can offer some further assistance.

 

Your answer is very logical and useful Alan, and your sugestion, but you suggest that quench in water for example than in oil?????,

I normally harden the cable in warm brine with great results,but 5160 is a oil hardening steel Im afraid to try it in water or brine.

Yeah maybe a thinner core would work, recently made sanmai with a railroad spike and 5160 in a thiner section and work great,but honestly I am very dissapointed with my failure.

Thanks a lot.

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Mine was 1095 and mild steel and I was getting it too hot when quenching, I dialed it back a lot and had some good luck on my last one, I just need to do some more of them.

 

I used my magnet to dial it in. Looking at the color of the fire, the previous ones were much too hot.

Beau Erwin

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I'd stick with oil for 5160, definitely. Just maybe a faster oil?

 

Here's the thread I was thinking about earlier: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18632

 

Ok Alan I see the problem is too common but certainly nobody knows 100% what happen,I will trying again and report my results.

Thanks y saludos desde Mexico

 

 

Mine was 1095 and mild steel and I was getting it too hot when quenching, I dialed it back a lot and had some good luck on my last one, I just need to do some more of them.

 

I used my magnet to dial it in. Looking at the color of the fire, the previous ones were much too hot.

 

Thanks Edgar, the mine problem was before all thermal treatment and I am very dissappointed y wil trying an see what happen.

 

Saludos desde Mexico.

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It is the high hardenability core, with low hardenability skins that is the problem. Cooling it slower may not change anything. The materials in the core and the skins need to be similar in their hardenability in order to not have this problem at all.

Thanks Howard,but in the past I made 5160 core with 1010 skins with no problems at this stage,once happens similar crack at quenching totally,but resolve the problem quenching only the edge portion.

 

I think there are many problems in this and not only one,if we think the principal purpose of sanmai is high hardenable steel core with soft outers by obvious reasons it is no logical thinking in make one with steels with similar hardenability no sense for me.

 

Saludos desde Mexico

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Felipe, hardenability is not the same as final hardness. It just means that both steels need to be able to move at the same rate or close to it. You didn't have a problem with the 1010/5160 because the 1010 is not hardenable to begin with, so it moved with the 5160.

 

I think what Howard is saying here is that by using the low-hardenability cable (hardens fast but not deep) with the high hardenability 5160 (hardens faster AND deep) you're setting up stresses that will very often result in a shear. At least that's what I understand from it.

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