Historic wraps

[Dan Scott]

I've got a client that would like a modern-ish wrap on a steak knife done with not-so modern materials. Specifically, he was thinking materials that would have been used in the "pioneer days". On top of that, it needs to be something I can wrap that will not exceed a 1/2" total width of the handle. I can't really give an exact date range for the pioneer days, but I figured someone here might have some ideas of what I should use.

 

He suggested sisal twine, but I think that stuff is going to fray and split like crazy, and get wear really quickly. So, I was thinking a leather lace would work well, such as this stuff from tandy.

 

As for the leather, would that be doable for a wrap? Also, how could I finish that? I usually epoxy my wraps, but will that soak up epoxy like paracord does?

 

The only other material I could think of that may have been available was cotton cordage, but I feel that wouldn't give the knife the more American feel the customer is looking for.

 

I'd really appreciate any suggestions.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

[Dan Scott]

Alright, so the client just gave me a bit more information.

 

Would using real sinew (can you actually get real sinew in 6 foot lengths?) and hide glue be a good substitute for paracord and epoxy?

[tsterling]

Alright, so the client just gave me a bit more information.

 

Would using real sinew (can you actually get real sinew in 6 foot lengths?) and hide glue be a good substitute for paracord and epoxy?

 

No, sinew gets eaten by the dust mites in the house, and is made of tiny fibers that will continue to fray. Ancient stuff made using sinew would have required constant maintenance.

 

Try rawhide thongs instead. Soak them in hot water for several hours until limp (that's hot from the tap, not boiling - boiling will turn the rawhide into hide glue), then wrap on tight. Rawhide is natures shrink wrap - as it dries it will shrink into place, becoming very hard. Use Fiebings oil dye while the rawhide is stll wet, then a linseed oil finish ywhen thoroughly dry and hard. After making the handle, allowing the rawhide to get wet for extended periods will soften it back up, but it's pretty durable if it doesn't stay wet for long periods - the linseed oil finish will help prevent that.

 

I get my rawhide thong from Oregon Leather in Portland or Eugene, but Tandy probably has it as well.

 

Here's a handle experiment I tried a while back using rawhide thong:

 

Alternatively, you can use a rectangular piece of rawhide and wrap it around the handle, sewing the ends together with a baseball stitch, like the handle in this one. People will probably tell you to use doggie chews (the unflavored kind), but don't - get some good rawhide meant for leatherworking. The doggie chews aren't meant to last.

Edited August 4, 2011 by tsterling

[jake cleland]

you're unlikely to find real sinew more than a couple of feet long at the most, as usually you can only get leg sinew. you could use gut, though - check out the stuff here :My link, or you can buy artificial sinew in long lengths. another option would be rawhide from a dog chew toy, but you're unlikely to be able to cut that fine enough to do a fancy wrap. the deerskin lace that tandy sells is really nice for wrapping, though the colours can be a bit bright, you could stain it when youre done.

[Geoff Keyes]

Dan,

 

You can also get rawhide in big pieces by buying the big dog chew toys, the ones with the knots in the ends. SOak then in warm water and they come undone into a big sheet. You'd have to cut it, but it's worth experimenting with to see if rawhide will work for you.

 

Geoff

[jake cleland]

missed your post, Tom. yup. we went with doggy chews... i forget that you guys in the States have much better access to 'buckskinning' supplies.

 

love both those wraps and knives by the way.

Edited August 4, 2011 by jake cleland

[Alan Longmire]

All that said, the only time I've ever seen a "wrap" of any sort on an old knife is as a repair, and that's almost always rawhide sheet over the original handle. Usually pinned with little brass or steel tacks, rarely sewn. I have also seen sinew and/or rawhide thong wraps as a repair at the bolsters when the blade gets loose in the handle.

 

Tom's second pic is not far off. Look at some of Chuck Burrows' work, he posts as "Wild Rose." He knows his stuff for "pioneer days" out west. Keep in mind I tend to get stuck in the Eastern frontier stuff and forget about the western stuff.

 

That's only if your client is after historical accuracy. If he just wants what he wants, give it to him and make it look good!

[Dan Scott]

Awesome, thanks so much for the help on this one guys. Alan, he's not looking for historical accuracy, he just wants what he wants, so I'm definitely following you're advice there

 

 

Tom, thanks for the instructions for the rawhide. I can get some rawhide lace and dye oil from Tandy's for under $10, so that's what I'll suggest to the customer. If he wants it more of a natural color, or just the color the rawhide comes in, would just a linseed oil finish on it work (without the dye oil)? I was thinking to keep thickness down (he wants it very thin) I could just wrap directly onto the steel, with nothing between the wrap and the steel, so I'm a bit worried about the linseed oil staining the steel as well. Is there a way around this?

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

Edited August 4, 2011 by Dan Scott

[tsterling]

missed your post, Tom. yup. we went with doggy chews... i forget that you guys in the States have much better access to 'buckskinning' supplies.

 

love both those wraps and knives by the way.

 

Thanks, Jake - we must have been typing simultaneously.

[tsterling]

Awesome, thanks so much for the help on this one guys. Alan, he's not looking for historical accuracy, he just wants what he wants, so I'm definitely following you're advice there

 

 

If he wants it more of a natural color, or just the color the rawhide comes in, would just a linseed oil finish on it work (without the dye oil)? I was thinking to keep thickness down (he wants it very thin) I could just wrap directly onto the steel, with nothing between the wrap and the steel, so I'm a bit worried about the linseed oil staining the steel as well. Is there a way around this?

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

 

The natural rawhide is a pretty awful bleached white color, so I'd suggest some dye at least. The Fiebings oil dye can be thinned with rubbing alcohol for a lighter color. And I believe the "oil" dye doesn't actually have oil in it. Go figure... I use the Fiebings oil dye because I think the stuff will soak into solid glass!

 

I'm not sure what you mean about linseed oil staining the steel - when I use linseed oil on my handles, I apply it to the steel, blade, handle and all, so everything looks the same. Of course, I would complete whatever treatment I was going to use on the steel before I applied the linseed oil. I figure the oil finish helps with the rust problem, and gives kind of a unifying look (wipe the excess oil off the steel). But most common solvents will remove any oil overage that you don't want on the steel.

Edited August 4, 2011 by tsterling

[Dan Scott]

Alright, that sounds good. I haven't used linseed oil before, that's why I asked, but it sounds like it's pretty harmless to the steel. My usual wood stain that I use (minwax stuff) stains the steel a very weird brown color (not quite like rust, but doesn't look nice anyway) so I figured linseed would do the same, but it sounds a lot less harmful. Just one more question, is the oil dye and the linseed oil going to be food safe? this is a steak knife, and I know they're going to be on the handle, but I just don't want to be poisoning a customer or anything

 

-Dan

[Alan Longmire]

Hardware store boiled linseed oil is NOT food safe. It's got cobalt carbonate salts in it to speed drying time. Dunno about the oil dye. The only nontoxic linseed oil finish I know of is Tried and True brand. Raw linseed oil (flaxseed oil) from a health food store is of course safe, but doesn't dry quickly. Leave it in a clear glass bottle with the lid on in the sun for a few days to thicken it up (if you've got any sun up there! ) and it ought to work.

[tsterling]

The linseed oil finish is the least of your worries if this is intended to be a food safe knife - how is your client planning on cleaning food residues out of the nooks and crannies of rawhide, especially if you're going to do a paracord-style wrap with a thong?

 

Rawhide comes from a dead thing, with little processing, unlike tanned leather. Add in poor cleanability, lots of nooks and crannies, rawhide can rot, etc. There's a reason professional kitchen and table cutlery is made of steel, wood or plastic with smooth surfaces.

 

Perhaps a rethink by your client is in order if this is a steak knife that will receive regular use and cleaning? At least make him understand.

 

Tom

[Dan Scott]

I understand that Tom. I think he wants it as more of a decorative conversation piece that he can carry around with him rather than a very hard use tool (my original design was for a very durable and easy to clean knife, he totally scrapped it in favor of this ). I did make him completely aware of how difficult it would be to keep it clean, and he understands that. He told me that he will only use it rarely to actually cut steaks.

 

Alan, thanks for the suggestion on the tried and true. I found some at my local woodcraft store.

 

Thanks so much for the help on this one guys, I really appreciate it!

 

-Dan

[tsterling]

I understand that Tom. I think he wants it as more of a decorative conversation piece that he can carry around with him rather than a very hard use tool (my original design was for a very durable and easy to clean knife, he totally scrapped it in favor of this ). I did make him completely aware of how difficult it would be to keep it clean, and he understands that. He told me that he will only use it rarely to actually cut steaks.

 

Good - I always try to be careful that client's expectations are realistic.

 

Wrap away, and the cost for this advice is you have to post pictures! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Josh Burrell]

 

 

that is a very beautiful handle, could you forward me to a wip on here about that kind of leather binding or other wise let me see a closeup of the stict.

 

ive suddenly got hungry for leatherwork....

Thanks

 

JB

 

ps im assuming that it was done wet and shrunk onto the grip?

 

do the holes not stretch?

Edited August 10, 2011 by Josh Burrell

[tsterling]

that is a very beautiful handle, could you forward me to a wip on here about that kind of leather binding or other wise let me see a closeup of the stitch - JB

 

ps im assuming that it was done wet and shrunk onto the grip?

 

do the holes not stretch?

 

Hi JB,

 

Here's a tutorial I made several years ago. The first part is wrapping a handle - Rawhide handle wrap

 

I've changed a few things nowadays - I dye the rawhide while it is still wet, and I no longer use wood for the sheath liner (I use regular veg tanned leather).

 

It is done wet - rawhide is nature's shrink wrap. The holes don't stretch much, and I just punch the hole with a sharp nail, I don't use a leather punch that removes the little circle of material.

 

Tom

[Dan Scott]

Hey, one more question. The customer has decided on doing a wrap with leather bootlace. It's probably chrome-tanned (though an employee at the place I purchased it from said it would be food safe given the use the customer described) and is already dyed. Do I need to finish it anymore? I did a sample wrap, and it seems like I could just wrap it and be done with it, but I'm not completely sure.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

[tsterling]

Hey, one more question. The customer has decided on doing a wrap with leather bootlace. It's probably chrome-tanned (though an employee at the place I purchased it from said it would be food safe given the use the customer described) and is already dyed. Do I need to finish it anymore? I did a sample wrap, and it seems like I could just wrap it and be done with it, but I'm not completely sure.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

 

As I understand it, chrome tanned leather is corrosive to metal. Best to stick with rawhide or veg tanned or brain tanned.

[Josh Burrell]

Hi JB,

 

Here's a tutorial I made several years ago. The first part is wrapping a handle - Rawhide handle wrap

 

I've changed a few things nowadays - I dye the rawhide while it is still wet, and I no longer use wood for the sheath liner (I use regular veg tanned leather).

 

It is done wet - rawhide is nature's shrink wrap. The holes don't stretch much, and I just punch the hole with a sharp nail, I don't use a leather punch that removes the little circle of material.

 

Tom

 

 

thanks very much, appreciate the link up.

 

Josh

[tsterling]

thanks very much, appreciate the link up.

 

Josh

 

You're welcome, Josh. Hope it's useful.