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hall of fame?


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is it only me that does not get or like this idea at all?

is it an American thing?

I know its none of my business and all but ...

I really don't get or understand the whole hall of fame thing?

whats with all the self congratulation?

this place remains a fluid and wonderfull expressive and moving place , all the good work comes and goes and keeps on coming .

digging up old posts is a cool idea , lots of great work and threads and info .

but "Hall of fame" really?

is this baseball?

is this the ABS?

have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

 

bad feelings about this......

goes off mumbling......

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The way I understand it, it really IS just to dig up the old threads and put them somewhere so we don't forget about all the great work that's been here. "Hall of Fame" may be the wrong term for it, maybe just "superpinned" would be a better way to think of it. Dave's idea was to let the members choose what should go in, not just the mods.

 

I don't think it's being held up as some sort of standard by any means, it's just what enough of us find inspirational to keep at the front of a list, or at least that's how I see it. Good work should be appreciated. Then again I've been called an elitist pig before (even if I don't always agree), so maybe that's why I don't find the concept distasteful. :lol:

 

I do understand your aversion to an ABS-type system of ratings, and you'll note we don't do that. That's why the whole Fiery Beard thing is about inspiration and humor, not skill. I'm actually proud that my own historically-inspired stuff doesn't (and can't, if it wants to remain true to the feel and spirit of the originals) fit in any way with the ABS standards of what makes a "good" knife. I'm even happier that most of what's been nominated so far fits that mold.

 

I'm not anti-ABS at all, don't get me wrong, it's just not my thing, or yours from what I've gathered. ;) That's why we here at this forum are what we are, a bunch of misfits and artistic rebels striving to capture the multifarious spirits of the blades that inspire us. I don't think anyone here is actively striving to create the ten-millionth perfect replica of a Loveless drop-point hunter or a Randall #7, but if they are and they do it well, that's fine too. :)

 

That may well be reading WAY too much into the whole thing, and I do appreciate keeping this forum's own unique personality, in fact that's my duty as a mod. We (the mods) agreed to keep the spirit and focus of the forum as Don created it.

 

If you want, we'll speak more of this at Ashokan over a friendly beverage or two, fear not. ;)

 

Now I may go nominate a few of your works, since they are well-deserving of acclaim... ;)

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If the name is unliked by some then perhaps something such as "Hall of Inspiration" cause it'd certainly be that.

 

"Collected Inspiration"

"Halls of Valhalla - Where old works go to live on forever!" <-- silly

*thinks*

Edited by EdgarFigaro
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Is it the name, or the concept in general? :huh:

 

I will not willingly be a party to offending you guys if I can at all help it. You two (among many others) are a huge part of what makes this forum home. Do we need a yea or nay vote on the concept? Let us know, either here or via PM. :unsure: If this is going to change the tone, I will not continue to support it. I value the way things are too much.

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Wow guys. I had no idea that this could cause offense.

 

The idea was to highlight the efforts that the membership as a whole thought worth saving so that they would not be forgotten in the literally hundreds of posts this board gets each week.

 

The concept was presented to the entire admin group and everyone seemed to think it was a good idea.

 

Perhaps it's just the name that's off putting? I don't mind what we call it. Do you guys have any more suggestions?

 

I don't find the tone of the posts to be "self congratulatory," at all. And it definitely was not meant to be in its intent.

 

I have to admit being a bit confused by this reaction, but I would be happy to support any suggestions for change that you would find less offensive.

 

--Dave

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I don't find anything wrong with the name, but if others don't like it, I'd be all for changing the name.

 

I do like the concept, in fact, I saw a handful of great threads that I'd missed before now, or forgotten all about.

 

When I first joined this forum, I spent my first 5 months or so looking through all the old show and tell threads (yeah, I'm serious), I started at the back, and worked my way forward. I gave up before getting halfway through. Who nows how many great threads I missed because I didn't want to dig through thousands of posts?

 

Everyone here, collectively digging and helping move the really great threads to a place where they can be found, seems like a great idea for me.

 

 

Maybe we could give it some kind of name based on those caches or finds of old weapons found in places like Britain? (what are those called, I cannot think of those names?)

 

 

 

 

Those are my $0.02 at least.

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A rose by any other name...

 

What's in a name? I'm not offended at all.

 

I like the idea of bringing the cream to the top. It's a help to me.

 

I can see where someone might think their post should have made it and didn't, however isn't it the same as having ones post pinned?

 

Art

 

p.s. No good deed shall go unpunished.

Edited by Art Lawrence
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I, for one, have been really enjoying the nominations. They have been inspiring and humbling. For those of us who have recently begun delving into this forum this thread has provided a great shortcut through a very very very large amount of information. Please consider this in any decisions that may be made to change this.

 

Thank you

 

Daniel

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Hello!

From the start, i had mixed feelings. I lean towards liking it, but i have some issues, the name, the reward for nominations (as it may cause a nomination whoring) and the danger forgeting something very beautiful and inspiring and touch someones feeling with that.

 

I like the SuperPinned thread idea, i like that its a shortcut for finding the awesome stuff.

 

I dont think that its really the cause but if we had to loose someone like Owen for being annoyed by this, i would quickly delete all trace of the thing. Because Owen belongs to hypothetical hall of fame of this place already

 

have a great days!

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It seems that everyone agrees that mining the ancient awesome thread hoard(thanks Stephen) is well worth doing. The voting thing leaves me cold and does not seem to add to it. Too fraught with ego inflation/deflation, and sycophantic potential which, thankfully have been minimal here.

 

That is, of course, unless my campaign behind the scene kicks in today. Then I’m all for it! :lol:

 

Jim

Edited by Jim Kelso
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Digging up old threads could be good.

How to go about doing so without causing some people to be unhappy may be very difficult, if not impossible.

I understand Owen's point of view. Add to that, the possibility of selection bias and influenced selection and things can get really bad.

Maybe the moderators need to think a bit more about this.

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Good points all, and we are thinking about it very hard. Does anyone else have any suggestions? Maybe if we just add those already nominated to the Pinned Threads archives that already exist, and change the name of the nominations threads from "Hall of Fame" to "Things that should be pinned but are not yet" and then delete the nominations threads altogether after a week or two?

 

Or just kill it entirely and allow people to do their own research if they want to mine for gold? I certainly understand that philosophy too. There is much merit in finding things for oneself, but I'll admit some of those old posts have given me quite a nostalgic feeling. :lol: Then again I've been here since 2003, so I've seen a LOT of stuff. :o

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Add to the above post:

 

The original idea really was about letting the whole membership decide what should be pinned, it was not intended to be a popularity contest or anything of the sort. Humility is good. I need to be reminded of that from time to time. :wacko:

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Not having been a member here all that long, I am REALLY enjoying seeing these older pieces! I have spent lots of time digging through old posts, but I missed a bunch of these, somehow. Crazy how much spectacular work has been shown here, a real hoard of inspiration indeed...:)

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Jim Kelso said:

The voting thing leaves me cold and does not seem to add to it. Too fraught with ego inflation/deflation, and sycophantic potential which, thankfully have been minimal here.

 

This ^

 

It could be construed as "sour grapes" on my part, because I seldom produce finished work, or post in the show and tell. However I do not think that is why I reacted the way I did. Many, many talented, intelligent and patient folks have made this forum special to me over the years. Much of the reason why it is special to me is that it is devoid of politics and ego for the most part. I like it that way. Any sort of popularity contest seems to detract from that.

 

I am all for digging up old threads, there is a huge amount of good information and outstanding work to be found.

 

I won't leave here because of it, and I doubt that Owen would either. Just sayin' why I have issues with the idea, not the name. It is not a huge deal, either, and I will no doubt look at more of them.

 

Be happy, do good work. :)

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I get the feeling that some nominations are being made just for nomination sake. I think that the selection process is too complex and cumbersome for the entire community to be involved with the final selection.

 

Now that the community has been involved in the "primaries", (it is election season, isn't it?"), let a board, whether it be the board of administrators or the fiery beards or whomever can make an educated decision on what should be pinned, make the final decision and pin the danged things. You don't have to give them an elitist title, just pin them where I can find them when I want to.

 

This is about me, right? :D

 

Respectfully susbmitted, Art

Edited by Art Lawrence
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All --

 

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

 

Since this was my idea, I feel I should apologize for the unintended implication that the idea behind the "hall of fame" was in the nature of a popularity contest.

 

If anything, my idea was to reduce "elitism" rather than increase it. It has always bothered me that admins are the ones that are empowered with the ability to pin topics. Back when the sole admin was Don Fogg, this made sense. If Don is impressed by it, then it's probably pretty damn impressive! However, as someone who feels like he's still very much a beginner in this art form, it seemed beyond ridiculous to me that it should be my decision whether a piece posted by JD Smith, Jake Powning, Peter Johnsonn, etc., etc. gets pinned or not.

 

When Don handed the board over to the admin team, he stressed that he wanted this place to remain a community. By opening up the hall of fame, we thought we were removing the "power of the pin" from the admins and giving it to the community at large.

 

Finally, a word about my knife give away. I came up with that idea because mining through the thousands of past threads to find interesting and unique posts is actually a lot of work. I started doing so myself and quickly had invested two hours before I found more than a couple of posts that made me think: "You know, the members would probably like to remember this one . . ."

 

So, I hope no one has misunderstood that the knife give away was to go to the bladesmith that had the most pieces put into the hall of fame! What the heck would that guy want with one of my amateurish knives anyway? LOL. No. It was to go to the member who spent the most time finding the really awesome stuff in the past archives.

 

The admin group is actively discussing how to best address this issue. Please be patient for a bit and we'll have a suggested course correction.

 

Again, I apologize for stirring the pot, Gentlemen. The last thing I want to do is tamper with the amazing culture and community we have on this board.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

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I think by keeping this place a benevolent dictatorship, you guys are making it more egalitarian than it would be with some attempt at democracy.

 

You will take some heat for your choices, but that's unavoidable and probably will be minimal.

Edited by Jim Kelso
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I would love to look at older posts! And I would love, if someone would pick out some better, more interesting stuff for me (I'm a lazy man :D)

If it have to be "Hall of Fame" then let it be :D

However - just posts would be fine too.

Now, how would we pick posts to be pinned? Popular vote is one way and not a bad one. After all - as Art pointed - "it's about me, right!" So people, who will be looking, will see what's interesting to them. And that will serve community spirit in the best way.

Another way would be educated jury. Perhaps selection would be of better quality and people will learn more about. However, to make it work as it should, posts need an educated comments too, all the aspects should be explained - well thought comments are essential part of learning process. Otherwise it will be just elitist and could create unnecessary tensions.

I can't imagine someone willing to do it.

So popular vote is a way to go, just don't take it too seriously :D

 

Peace

Tõnu

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I hope I haven't stirred the pot to vigorously .

I posted this thread because the "hall of fame " gave me an uneasy feeling. I am trying to pin exactly what it is i don't like about the idea. some element of it may well just be change....... no one likes seeing there favourite armchair re up holstered. but I think there is more to that.

My gut feeling is that a "hall of fame " of any kind has undertones of institutionalisation ......to the extent that it could end up being a case of reading in blade about "bladesmiths forum hall of fame member ******* , who has been making boooies for 10 years now "

 

I guess I am also not at all sure of the voting popularity aspect of the whole thing, there are threads I would love to see again ( a question of means pretty much showed me the path) .

there is a gravitas and respect to this place that includes the humour and frivolity of the craft along with the hard work and beautiful pieces of steel and wood and bone that are shown here.

I feel a veneration when I say "this place" that I do not feel for any other imaginary place of internet interaction.

so what I think I am saying is that the hall of fame makes me feel uneasy , in the kind of "opening the flood gates" way.

 

I would hasten to add that what I think really doesn't necessarily matter , and that there is no fear of me leaving or any such stuff and that the "team" is doing a grand job keeping this old ship a sailing.............................

I am looking forward to chatting at ashokan......

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I have been cleaning mud from the flood in Brattleboro and haven't had much time to be around lately.. But I did get a message from Dave about his concern

 

of stirring the pot... Even though I had not read this thread I found it is interesting that I could guess what the concerns were... Now reading the posts I feel

 

much of the same concerns... As anyone knows who follows our political system in the US the semantics of a word can make all the difference in how

 

an idea or concept is precieved.... The idea of a contest rubs me wrong . The need for some sort of an index to look back on good info is something Don was working on ..

 

Even my use of "index" does not explain it in the words that Don would use to describe his concept... Any collection of info is going to be thought of from different views of

 

perspective by each individual according to the name used to describe it... I'm wondering if a topic could be named "index" or some better neutral word and then within that

 

a bunch of threads could be set up

 

according to subjects that all of the members would be able to post a link and short discription of the said subject within this forum...

 

It is far too much work for any one person to organize all this info... but if all of us were to slowly chip away at it I feel it would evolve to a very useful tool... It would not

 

smack of a contest ... it would be short and sweet as far as bandwidth used verses reposting the full original post ... it would be "democratic " in that there is no

 

"contest" and both the admins and the members could participate equally... there would be no need to mention who entered a post so it would not become a

 

contest in that way either...

 

The best part is that everyone could be "important".... I feel that anyone and everyones opinion is important and should valued be valued... this is maybe the one

 

time that anonomy would be a good thing in that their would be no personal gain to helping organize this forum... even if you only posted your own threads no one would

 

know who posted them and the the membership would be the only real benifactor in being able to locate info more easily...

 

That's my two cents... Above all we want Dons dream to continue.... Thank you all your input into the thoughts on this topic....

 

Dick

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You haven't stirred the Pot Owen, you've raised a very wise, valid, and mature point that we all should take note of. keeping Humility in mind is indeed always a good thing.

 

And I know for a fact the original intent by all of us on the admin team from the start was indeed not to "show off" in any way, you raise a great point about being careful about our terminology in naming.

I think any of the alternative names posted here would be great.

Dave's idea of reviving old threads featuring incredible work is an absolutely brilliant idea that I love, so long as we carry it our in a tasteful way that doesn't demean others who dont get their work re-posted.

 

So from my perspective all in all; great points and thoughts from everyone here. And I think the goal should now be to wisely keep this idea alive in a revised form, rooted in a sense of humility and community.

 

And I cant wait to do some beard burning with all of you guys at Ashokan here soon

(even though my "beard" is still peach fuzz in comparison to all of you guys) ;)

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Trust

 

Trust in our membership

 

and

 

Trust in our moderators

 

So far I have not seen anything nominated the I would not want easier access to.

 

Here is one idea.

Create well thought out guidelines of what and why something should be "Super Pinned". This can be a forum discussion. What do each of us want to see-Inspiration? How to? Down right silly?

 

Great blades are a no brainer but any of Howard's replys and discussions on metallurgy and heat treating or Owens musings on why we do what we do should be kept for all posterity.

 

Create a general road map so that we don't go running down bunny trails.

 

Use the membership to mine for the gold.

 

Probably if someone took the time to search it out and found it special then more than likely it is worthy.

 

PM a moderator or moderators. They get the final say-gatekeepers if you will. For as much as I would like to think otherwise someone will lobby someone else to nominate them. Every organization has this type and I would guess we are no different-maybe not.

 

No competition, no voting and especially No Prizes For Anything. Dave, I know your offer came from the heart but make something about competition and prizes and it becomes something else.

 

This way good work is showcased because it is good work and someone found value in it.

 

Our Mods have been tasked by Don to keep the "Special" in this special place and they are doing a tremendous job.

As Jim said-Democracy is not always the best system.

Edited by Danocon
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