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Ancient Aliens bladesmith episode


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Watcing this now on History Channel. The actual title of the episode is "Aliens and Deadly Weapons", but it suggest that the earliest sword makers were aliens who for some unknown reason came to earth to teach us lowly humans how to forge a blade. Kind of insulting to the real swordsmiths IMO.

 

Looks like it comes on again at midnight Eastern tonight.

Edited by HSJackson
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So, let me see if I got this right:

 

A race of intelligent beings that have the power to travel between stars make a journey over many light years to teach our fore fathers blade smithing.

-That is dedication to the craft!

 

I would have thought they had other things higher on the to-do-list when they came here...

 

-That must be one of the most profoundly stupid ideas I have ever heard!

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Luke,

 

Whilst I have no truck with Ancient Aliens (I won't quote my old Archeology professor, Garland Grabert, but he was, uh...pungent, on the issue) this statement confuses me.

 

then gradually became "smarter" totally breaks the second law of thermodynamics

 

Life, by it's very nature, contravenes the 2nd law, just look at snail shells, or birds nests, or a brick house. It's what life does, creates order out of chaos, even if only for a brief time.

 

I don't believe that our ancestors were not as smart as we are, they may have had less accumulated knowledge to work with, but I think they had much the same intellectual tool kit. They were able to look for solutions to issues in their daily lives, implement the solution, improve upon the first draft, and pass the results onto the next generation.

 

Just my own take and no insult intended. I suspect we are both on the same side of this question.

 

So would Occam's Razor have gold and engraving on it, ivory scrimshaw handles and a damascus blade? Or would it be just as simple as possible? :lol:

 

Geoff

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The ancient aliens theory is insulting, seeing as it hinges on the idea that humans were too stupid to come up with all this technology by themselves. Humans can be pretty darn smart...I don't know why you would believe that stuff. The idea that humans, a long time ago were stupid cave men that could barely speak there own language and then gradually became "smarter" totally breaks the second law of thermodynamics (dont even get me started on occam's razor....someone should make occam's razor...that would be so awesome), not to mention direct observation (inbreeding...the world is one big, yet closed, genetic pool)...weeeellll dunno if this is the place for this kind of thinking out loud, but I like discussing things like that.

 

 

I couldn't have said it better myself Luke...

The idea that we are somehow more enlightened and smarter than our forefathers & ancestors is I think not only naive but a downright silly, prideful, and dangerous thought...

I think it belittles the incredible insights and discoveries our ancestors made, ignores their far better connection and harmony with Creation/Nature than ours is now, and triumphantly elevates our petty little modern advances in technology way beyond how they should be viewed.

if anything I think the modern man is sadly de-evolving... not in every way of coarse, and I dont say that flippantly.

Obviously not or else I wouldn't be typing on a piece of aluminum sending this out on a network for you guys to read. ;) But in many ways I believe we are.

 

Tolkien fought against this idea of ancient humans being stupid dumb brutes and "modern man" being an enlightened super humans better than anyone else. Through his fantasy work of art, I think he clearly showed how humans historically knew far more about the universe and our purpose in it then than we do now despite all of our resources.

 

And as the Proverb goes:

"Pride goes before destruction,

a haughty spirit before a fall."

I think that applies to humans collectively.

But, just my 2 pointless cents :P

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I'm I the only person who thinks it's rather incredulous for a "history" production to put forth such garbage? This is just the dumbing of America; showmanship in place of substance. I have to admit that I do watch it. I love Decoded, partially because they at least make an attempt to keep a ballance view. However, I seem to have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that there's something screwed up about their programs that I just don't know enough to catch. One that I did catch was when they refered to the raised rib down the center of a Roman gladius as a fuller.

 

Doug

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-That must be one of the most profoundly stupid ideas I have ever heard!

 

More or less.

 

I've heard of this character. The funny thing is that it seems to just be the ONE person proposing it all, and everybody else either ignores him or criticizes him because of how idiotic it is.

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You take a man with the same number of brain cells that we have... call him "ancient" if you want to, but a man like us nonetheless.

 

Assign him a single task: forge iron, carve wood, knap stone, hunt, fight... you name it.

 

Now remove from him 99% of our modern distractions: media, television, computers, cell phones, 40+ hr/week jobs (or school), vehicle maintenance, house & grounds maintenance... all of these things that don't just demand our time, but they constantly demand our thought.

 

This is, in my opinion, the de-evolution. We have taken the part of our mind we have to work with and then divided it in a thousand different directions.

 

Every now and then you come across a gifted multi-tasker, but I believe the most exceptionally gifted among us are those who have shut out more of the external distractions.

 

(says I while I ponder the completeion of a knife when I get home... after I knock out about 4 more hours at work, change the oil in my wife's car, make sure the brick masons I have hired haven't left early, take my family to dinner for my daughter's birthday, go look at outdoor light fixtures... then I will get some quality shop time. :wacko: )

 

That said, I don't think they were any smarter than us on average; just waaayyy more focused.

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Aliens or other fantastic explanatory theories (the supernatural, etc.) come from, in my opinion, intellectual laziness. The scientific method works to explain and predict better than any other method we've devised so far. Unfortunately, it's hard work, and sometimes it's counter intuitive.

 

It is quite easy to say: "Ah, this (event, object, phenomenon, etc.) is complex, difficult to explain and seems very, very improbable. Therefore, I'm going to postulate that [insert magic, aliens, supernatural entity, etc. here] caused it to happen. That explains it!"

 

The obvious--and yet so often overlooked--problem with this approach is that it tries to explain away one improbable thing with something that is equally, or in most cases, more improbable itself. It's an infinite regression, where you must then explain the mystery that you used to explain the original mystery. In the end, like with most things, it's better to just roll up your sleeves and do the hard work of research and experimentation to arrive at an explanatory theory based on evidence. In the end, shortcuts always take longer.

 

This reminds me of the ancient Indian myth that the world is flat and disc shaped.

 

Someone presumably asked: "Yes, but upon what does the flat world rest?"

 

To which someone said: "It can't just rest on nothing! That would be really improbable. I think it must rest on the back of four large elephants."

 

"Ah! I see," said the questioner. "But hold on a moment, what are the elephants standing upon?"

 

"Hmm, that's a tricky one. They can't be standing on nothing either! That would be really, really improbable. Ah, I've got it. They're standing on the back of a large turtle."

 

"Brilliant."

 

Not making this up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Turtle

 

Grins,

 

Dave

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We are just starting to learn how "simple" prehistoric man wasn't. I know when I was in school it was believed that even through the middle ages most people lived and died within a couple of days walk of where they were born, with the exception of a few mass migrations-and maybe the Romans, and maybe Alexander's troops. Now we know the exceptions may be far greater. Skeletons have been recovered from around the Stone Hendge site that show through analysis of their teeth that they came from the Mederteranian reagon and the area around Switzerland or western Austria. Some are also starting to argue that anchient prehistoric man would have had to have built boats to be able to reach the islands in southeast Asia (wait a minute, that can't possibly be right-they were too primative :blink: ). It still amazes me that educated (I decline to call them intelegent) people can look at something like an obalisk standing in Egypt from sometime before the Common Era and their first conclusion is that it was impossible for the achient Egyptians to creat it when the evidence before their eyes is that they did it.

 

It just about like the historians who say that any evidence of man in the Americas before the Clovis People is false because the Clovis People were the first humans in the Americas. It's like "wow, how much money did their parents spend to send them to college".

 

Rant done :angry:

Doug

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I don't know about aliens, as I'm pretty sure that the Svartalfar come from within the flesh of Ymir, and not outer space. They've been teaching even such great men as Sigurd himself how to make swords since Elder days! Sheesh. Do ur research, History Channel! -_-

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Pff... I'm a rocketscientist, and I can't figure out how they did a lot of the bronze casting 3000 years ago. Heck, if aliens have visited here in those times, they probably came here to learn from prehistoric people here with such simple means managed to do such fenominally difficult casting work ;) (I would, if I could visit prehistoric earth!)

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First, I'd like to be certain that this flawed program was aired to generate revenue and not to educate or inform anyone. Second, in order to survive in the distant past, people had to be much smarter than most of us now. Or much luckier. With recorded data we don't need to rely on memorized stories or techniques- and that data is so readily available. Written language was a huge world changer.

Brian

And Geoff, Thanks for the pleasant surprise in the mail this morning.

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Aliens or other fantastic explanatory theories (the supernatural, etc.) come from, in my opinion, intellectual laziness...........

 

I disagree with your point, Dave. I would advance the premise that intellectual laziness plays a minor role and would ask you to consider that being nuts is the major factor, as long as we may claim that confusion is allowed into this category, whether temporary or permanent, whether chemically induced or the result of a flawed brain.

Brian

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Yes, Luke, I saw that Discovery show. I generally don't like to get into these discussions on boards like this but I just cannot see how the concept of a creator god who exists beyond energy, matter, and time is a less viable view than everything originated from nothing with no causality.

 

Brian, there are probably all sorts of skill sets that have been lost because they were replaced by other technologies during preliterate times or, in an effort to keep them secret or fell totally out of use, that they were not transmitted through cultural history.

 

Doug

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