Jump to content

quench oil aging


GEzell

Recommended Posts

I have some 12 year old canola oil that has had at least 50 blades quenched in it over the years... :rolleyes:

During that time I was focusing on 5160 as my primary steel, so I was not really concerned with my oil breaking down as 5160 will just about harden in a cool breeze. I edge-quench too, so this oil has been abused....

 

Just for the heck of it, I still quench in it on occasion when the steel doesn't need a fast quench. I have noticed something interesting. I had assumed as it aged and broke down that it would become slower and slower, however, just the opposite seems to have happened. I recently quenched a fairly long, wedge-shaped blade in it and got sori... not a nose dive as I would expect in oil, but the tip actually raised a bit. The last time I used it, the blade cracked in several places. I haven't cracked a blade in years, and then only in a brine or water quench.

 

I think it has gotten faster, not slower. Is this typical as oil breaks down? Could it have absorbed enough moisture over the years that it now behaves more like a water quench than an oil quench?

 

What are the effects on quench speed as oil ages?

 

 

Note: I am now using parks50 for 1095/w2 and fresh canola for 1080 and 5160. But I am curious.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard rumors that Canola actually gets faster with age. There's a long running flame war going on over at BF about canola being a viable quenchant regardless. Personally I use it for medium speed applications, as opposed to buying something like Fastquench, or AAA, but I use Park 50 for W2, 1095, etc. due to ease.

 

Interesting thing about the vegetable based oils is the apparent lack of vapor jacket, which is the slow heat transference first phase of the quench, with water or petro based oils, although the boiling phase is apparently less important than the convection stage, I wonder how this plays out once the oil ages. Oil will take on water and supposedly with petro based oils hydration as much as .05% can affect performance, supposedly negatively, but who knows. Perhaps over time, hydration and oxidation of the vegetable based oils (which are generally considered less stable), takes on enough water to increase the secondary phase of the quench, of which from my understanding, canola is already considered to be extremely fast initially, then slower in the second stage when fresh.

 

 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than ourselves will enlighten us? ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 12 years and dozens of quenches, it's time for this oil to move on to it's next career: salad dressing. Some vinegar, iron filings, and herbs and you'll have something special.

 

:)

Edited by tgdula

www.toddblades.com

 

"Geometry says how sharp, steel says how long." - Roman Landes, Ashokan 2009

 

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

 

- George Orwell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's my thinking too, time to retire it... I know a fellow who makes bio-diesel that might like it.

 

I am curious as to why it is cooling steel fast enough to crack it, though, but I am now almost certain it is due to taking on moisture. What I don't understand is that oil and water should not mix without separating, and this shows no sign of it.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

RelicForge on facebook
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

The only oil that I know of that absorbs moisture from the air is Brake Fluid

 

 

Dry boiling point

 

Wet boiling point

 

DOT 3

205 °C (401 °F)

 

140 °C (284 °F)

 

DOT 4

 

230 °C (446 °F)

155 °C (311 °F)

 

DOT 5

 

260 °C (500 °F)

180 °C (356 °F)

 

 

 

DOT 5.1

 

270 °C (518 °F)

190 °C (374 °F)

 

 

Hope this helps

To error is human To really ****up you need a computer. BTW I hate computers. Knowledge is Power, what You do with it either makes you a leader or a dictator

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My oil certainly got faster! Then I discovered that the bottom 1/3 was now water! Once we got rid of the water, the "oil" went back to normal speed! :blink:

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#0000FF"][size="5"][b]Perfection[/b][/size]

[i][size="3"]is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.[/size][/i][/color][/font]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

My oil certainly got faster! Then I discovered that the bottom 1/3 was now water! Once we got rid of the water, the "oil" went back to normal speed! :blink:

 

 

Canola will get faster if there is water present. It will not separate as canola or vegetable oil is hydrophillic (likes water).

 

Oil that contains more than 1000 ppm of water can be a serious fire hazard as the water turns to steam and pushes the oil out. Often the oil ignites from the hot part. Then you have a real mess with flaming oil over everything

D. Scott MacKenzie, PhD

Heat Treating (Aluminum and Steel)

Quenching (Water, Polymer, Oil, Salt and Mar-Tempering)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...