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Possible new forge idea


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I used to have a "old" coleman lantern that worked on unleaded petrol. You pumped the container and it worked like a gas lantern. Seeing that I have been unable to by LPG for almost 4 weeks now due to a gas shortage this gave me an idea that I want tinker with. I have researched veg oil and diesel and paraffin forges and although they work it seems that they are not always reliable.

 

So this is my idea:

 

What if I took a 19 kg gas bottle and modded it to take unleaded petrol. Petrol gives off fumes that in a contained environment would essentially be a gas. If I drilled a hole at the bottom of the bottle and inserted a ftg for a compressed air hose and used the compressed air to create the same effect that the lantern worked on then I would have the required pressure to run a forge?

 

This is just an idea rolling around in my head and I have no idea if it would work. So I am putting it up here on the forum hoping that some heated debate might turn up some ideas and possible ways to see if it would be a viable option - otherwise I am going to have to mod all my forges to run on diesel or oil.

 

Tim

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Thanks Don. I assume by fuel oil you mean paraffin, diesel, bio diesel, etc. And If I went this way would I still need a high presser regulator or just directly of the bottle?

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Look up the Babington Burner. All you need is some air pressure and you can burn all the waste oils you have. With a few tweaks something like this can produce enough heat to smelt steel. At a hammerin a couple week we melted some crucible steel in something that was a lot less efficient than this kind of burner.

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company i worked for used kerosene furnaces, but petrol would be just too dangerous. if your atomised gas didn't ignite, you would find the work shop filled very quickly with extremely explosive vapour that could fire ball.

 

i wouldnt want to try it myself.

Edited by Josh Burrell
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there are diesel burners..but pricey

http://www.bro.com.au/burners.htm

and how'd they would work in a forge is ?

 

myself, i've used a oil gun burner to heat a kaowool forge...it was ok.. getting to a dull yellow heat but jeez it went through alot of kerosene .. pricey ! but you could salvage the pump of it and try it with filtered waste oil with a bigger nozzle

 

there is some info on this forum

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/forums/

 

good stuff ...but i'd stay away from the " home made" refractories.... in my opinion they are rubbish

 

 

good luck

 

 

ps... charcoal is a good standby fuel if lpg is out... its safe ..cept for those annoying forge fleas ^_^

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What about using a fuel injector system from a car, or basing one on that design? Fuel pump in a tank of whatever liquid fuel you want to use. Eliminate all the bits that feed multiple cylinders and just use 1 or 2 injectors with a constant feed with a forced air supply. By changing out the injectors you could use different fuels.

 

Wayne

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Thanks Mike, I've seen the babington burner before and it's too much modding to change my existing setup to work with it.

This is the burner I am thinking of using.

 

oilburners10_B_burnerdiag.jpg

 

Josh, my biggest concern is safety and before I start modding I want enough info so that I am sure it's safe and will work so I don't waste any time and money. I only mentioned petrol because the lantern I had was made to use unleaded only - will more than likely run with diesel or paraffin.

 

Greg, thanks, seen that one and with the exchange rate I can't even consider it and the above burner is the one used in the link you gave. Charcoal is my problem, I live in a town with one of the biggest coal export terminals in the world and can't buy a dust particle, closest I can get from is 200+km away.

 

Wayne, this is something I have been considering, but my mechanical skills are poor at best when it comes to diesel engines. Have a mechanic friend I plan to brain pick soon.

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My forge is set up to run propane, but the burner is also set to where it can run waste veggie oil, I've just not taken the time to try to source any lately, as most places I tried have theirs auto pumped into a large cylinder that is then emptied when the truck comes for it.

 

Makes me wish I had a trailer with thanksgiving coming up soon, sit out somewhere with a sign to collect used turkey fryer oil LOL

 

My burner is very similar to that one you posted in the way it works although the oil line goes almost to the tip.

 

I may have photos....Found the photos.

These are fairly old but the forge is still set upt he same way, been thinking about swapping it back out to the old way since I don't have any oil currently.

 

This was the burner's original set up.

CIMG3410small.jpg

 

This is the oil mod.

CIMG3534.jpg

 

Closeup

CIMG3535.jpg

 

This was the internal bit that screws into the T

CIMG3536.jpg

 

This was it running at night.

CIMG3539.jpg

Edited by EdgarFigaro
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Hey Edgar, thanks. That's basically the same as my set up. What I would like to know is your input with regards to using oil, how does it burn, is it hotter than LPG, how much oil do you use, etc? Do you think you could weld in it?

 

Nice set up by the way.

 

Tim

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is very interesting to me, as well. I have a very similar vertical welding forge already modded for waste oil. It works OK, but there are bugs to work out. I see you have a squirrel cage blower- does it ever have a problem building enough pressure do adequately drive your oil burner?

 

Also, that's a pretty small looking burner tube- I have only a 1" burner tube on mine, and feel that it restricts the ability of the blower (mine's a squirrel cage, too) to adequately breathe into the forge. How does yours work?

 

Do you use a SS flare or nozzle on the end of your burner tube? It looks as if maybe not. I really have to preheat my liner for a long time to be able to cut over to oil without excessive smoking. I don't use a SS flare, I'm thinking that if I did, I'd be able to push it into the refractory closer to the heat chamber and help with the smoke problem. My forge is a 1" castable liner wrapped in kaowool inside a steel shell, so it takes a good while to preheat anyway.

 

Another thing: I see that your oil is injected concentrically, near the end of the burner tube. My way was to drill a hole in the top of the burner tube 3" back or so from the business end, braze a 1/4" copper line to it, and hook that to my gravity tank. I get a pulsing flame with it sometimes- I don't think it flows well or maybe the oil is being injected too far back into the tube. Your system looks as if it works better.

 

I appreciate any answers you can share. Thanks for the above pics, etc. I'm going to rebuild my burner and forge soon any way, I'll probably go with your style of oil injection.

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It seemed to burn quite well. I'd like to find a good supply of it to play with some more, but haven't done so in quite a while.

 

With the blower I've had no trouble with it, it's choked down via the gate valve. It seemed to run just fine the times I did get to use it with oil.

the main burner itself was the kit burner Ellis was selling. I just took out the top elbow and added a T.

Where it goes into the forge I think it's 1"

 

Is your blower very large? This one puts out the air pretty good.

 

I'm thinking I may have to try sourcing some oil to play with again. I'd really like to find a good supply as it'd be a very cheap fuel.

 

There's nothing on the end of the burner, just runs straight into the forge. I would just get the forge up to temp with propane and then switch it over. The oil provided plenty of heat, but I don't recall if I tried welding in it.

 

I'm pretty sure the idea for my burner came from that backyard metal casting site where that drawing above was from. If I recall right, running it right to the end just allowed it to drip inside and it basically instantly vaporizes once up to heat.

 

This makes me wanna play with it again =[ Only bad thing is the current weather would provide slow oil flow =P I've seen some where they did build in a way to keep the oil warm.

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Yeah, I think I've seen copper oil tubing run around the forge shell or some such to preheat it. Wouldn't work on my forge. It's starting to get real cold here, too. My 60+ gallons of waste veg oil are pretty thick even now. I'm thinking about keeping 5 gals. inside the house overnight before forge welding with it, and maybe finding a small drop-in stock tank heater to pre-heat/keep it warm in the gravity tank.

 

I've not tried welding with it yet, supposedly veg oil has more BTUs than propane, gets hotter, (too hot if you're not careful) and provides a rich reducing atmosphere. I really want to try mine out some more, too. Plus, WVO is still pretty easy to find, and largely free around here.

 

Did you use SS tube or SS brake line for your injector tube, and how far would you say the tip is recessed from the inner wall of your heat chamber?

 

My blower looks much like yours only 1/2 again as big...

 

Thanks for responding. One more- is your forge lined with just blanket, and how far is your burner tube into the wall?

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  • 6 months later...

Updated with new burners

 

Some vids with the small forge running with the new Hago nozzle.

 

With choke open.

 

With choke closed.

 

After 5 min from start up.

 

After 15 min - welding heat.

 

These nozzles are not cheap but work like a dream once you figure out what burner size works best.

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  • 1 month later...

Didn't notice the response last time around.

 

I struggled to just find some iron pipe around here. I finally found a plumbing place that had some with...I'm going from memory here but i thinkt he inside diameter was 1/8" I'd have to go out and measure. Only draw back was it was galvanized. So I soaked it for a while in some old ferric to remove that. As for how far it protrudes. I think the tip of the injector tube sits back around 1/2" from the burner tip, and the actual burner tip sits maybe flush with the wall of the forge. If it protrudes too far in, it'll just erode to where it needs to be.

 

I need to look around for sources and possibly build me some equipment if I can find some.

 

I found that you can get 275 gallon plastic totes quite easily. One could be your storage tank if elevated enough, or you could pump to a smaller tank to feed the forge. One of those on a small trailer would work great for gathering it.

 

Yes my forge is just lined with wool, and then some satanite and itc over the top of that. Only 1" of wool as well.

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Thanks for the reply Edgar! I have since relined that forge and rebuilt that burner and it works much better now with the oil mod. There are still little bugs to work out, but it does generate a good flame and no longer smokes. I think that perhaps the waste veg oil I have is too thick- it doesn't flow all that well. I am able to run on just oil after a while, and maintain good heats, but sometimes the heat will taper off after 20 minutes or so, necessitating adding some propane again. Like I say, bugs but better. When running on just propane it's a great welding forge, hotter than hades.

 

I did get an oil burner from a scrap pile the other day- the type used for furnaces and sometimes in HVAC. It works, too. It incorporates an oil pump, blower, nozzle, and electric spark at the nozzle. A project for the future would be to see how thick of an oil it will work with, whether I can run a mix of veg and diesel through it, and if I can make it work for a forge.

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2tim, I wish I could watch the vid but I'm on dialup here. If sometime you could type a bit about the nozzles, your use of them, and the results I'd be happy to read it. How heavy of a viscosity will they deal with?

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