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L6 and spring steel will it forge weld


craig mcmillan
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Hi am looking at doing more pattern welded sword and was thinking if L6 and spring steel will weld togeather if it did though it would make a prity tuff blade

i have been using o1/L6 for my knifes and the sword was L6/miled steel i will give this combo a go this weekend so just wundering if any has hade a go with it as i cant find the good steels to use in new zealand will need to inport some if it is the better way to go

 

next sword i will be doing is a 2 hander Highland Claymore ( Claidheamh Da Laihm )am going to do sorta of a mosaic turkish pattern

 

Cheers craig

Edited by craig mcmillan
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Hi am looking at doing more pattern welded sword and was thinking if L6 and spring steel will weld togeather if it did though it would make a prity tuff blade

i have been using o1/L6 for my knifes and the sword was L6/miled steel i will give this combo a go this weekend so just wundering if any has hade a go with it as i cant find the good steels to use in new zealand will need to inport some if it is the better way to go

 

next sword i will be doing is a 2 hander Highland Claymore ( Claidheamh Da Laihm )am going to do sorta of a mosaic turkish pattern

 

Cheers craig

Trust me, go with 1084 or 1080. Yes, 5160 is tough- but it's also a pain in forge-welding. Done right, 1084 and L6 stick together like glue. Save the 5160 for big monosteel blades.

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o1 and l6 go together like pees and carrots if you dont mind the air hardening aspects of o1

 

any thing with 5160/spring steel tends to weld ok but if you drop the temp to far before its had a good chance to bond the spring will pop its self off and youl have to start over with the welding heat and beat

 

ive done it sanmi and had a whole side blow off before i could get to the shaping i got it to weld back on and heat treated and all, it did do a wicked warp in heat treat but it did make for a nice kitchen knife when i finished it (the intent all along)

Brandon Sawisch bladesmith

 

eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked in to jet engines

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Since you're a Kiwi, your spring steel might be EN45, and I know nothing at all about that stuff, but if it's anything like 5160 it has no place in pattern-welding.

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As Alan has pointed out. If your spring steel is EN45 then it will only cause you problems in pattern welding. You could spend the rest of your life welding this up to something like 15N20 and then watch it split apart as you draw it out. It will weld back up again only to split apart when you next draw it out.

The reason is EN45 is a Silicon Manganese Spring Steel with silicon values typically between 1.7 - 2%. That much silicon makes it resist streaching so the welds tear apart.

 

You need a simple carbon spring steel. What that is in New Zealand, I have no idea. In the UK it would be something like CS70 or CS80.

 

Mick.

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I did a L6/san mai damascus billet up last year..1084/15n20 damascus on either side of L6..It ripped itself apart laying on the bench normalizing..I still have it..Perfect weld but right where the damascus was welded to the L6 it just tore itself apart laying on the bench..

You have to take Life by the throat, then you need to chocke it until it spits up what you want!!

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I have a couple of san mai experiments with L-6 cores, the core didn't split from the skins, it (the L-6 core) sheared through the center of it's self.

 

I have made pattern welded steel of nearly everything I could get my hands on at one time or another. I do not like 5160, and I doubt would like en45 very much, though I confess I did not try it when I had the chance. I am not fond of O-1 either, but others use it with great results.

 

I have welded L-6 with many other things successfully, using steels with a range of carbon contents from zero to over 1%, including 52100 (a real PITA), and some odd combinations at times, just to see. What I have done most, and most liked, was with 1086m or, when I could get it, O-2, which has gone extinct, as far as I can tell.

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Howard Ive made axes with L6 bits before and had them shear right down the middle of the bit..Not along the side as you said but right down the middle..I had plenty that were succesful but had a couple that split..Mild steel bodys..Had one start splitting in my hand as I was grinding on it..

You have to take Life by the throat, then you need to chocke it until it spits up what you want!!

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What is your source for L6? If it is old saw blades, odds are very good it is not actually L6... possibly 15n20? Just so you know, somewhere the rumor started that all saw blades are L6 and this just is not true, in fact very few are L6.

 

If you are seeking to lower the carbon content of your L6/O1 mix, you could try adding mild steel (preferably 1018, beware odd construction-grade alloys) to the mix. This would give you a springier steel without actually using spring steel...

 

Not all spring steel is 5160. 5160 does not play nice in patternwelding as a general rule, but some of the steels classed as spring steel would preform admirably. There is just no good way to tell what type of steel any given spring is made from short of having it analyzed.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


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cheers for the info i have been using big band saw blades like 300mm wide from a lumber mill will need to try to find out exactly what it is i will try to find some 1084 but if i cant might try L6-o1-1018 so my mix would be o1-L6-1018-L6-o1-L6-1018-L6 will give this a go this weekens would there be any problems with twisting whitch i will findout this weekend anyway or hope not to

 

cheers craig

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Odds are good your bandsaw blades are 15n20, it is a very good steel that mixes well with most every carbon steel... if you are getting good contrast with it, I'd be willing to bet it's 15n20. Most of your big wide bandsaw blades used in the U.S. at the lumbermills are that alloy. Not all, but most. L6 is an excellent steel, but 15n20 may be easier to work with as it is basically straight .8% carbon steel with 2% nickel.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

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Most of your big wide bandsaw blades used in the U.S. at the lumbermills are that alloy. Not all, but most. L6 is an excellent steel, but 15n20 may be easier to work with as it is basically straight .8% carbon steel with 2% nickel.

 

+1 for this^ Spot on!

 

I thought the C was .7 ?

Edited by Howard Clark
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Howard Ive made axes with L6 bits before and had them shear right down the middle of the bit..Not along the side as you said but right down the middle..I had plenty that were succesful but had a couple that split..Mild steel bodys..Had one start splitting in my hand as I was grinding on it..

 

Me three! Never used the stuff again.

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15N20 has around 0.75 Carbon. I had 500 kilos delivered recently and the Inspection Certificate of this batch has the Carbon at 0.735.

I think the way Uddeholm's numbering system for their steel works, is that you half the first number for the carbon. So 15N20 and 15LM are 0.75 and their 20C is 1% carbon.

 

Mick.

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I thought the C was .7 ?

True, I was going by memory and should have been in bed already.... :wacko:

Let's say .7 to .8%...

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


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Yes, the O-2 is more closely matched for heat treatment characteristics. A bit stiffer under the hammer, but not enough to be a problem really. It also etches "blacker" in the end because of the very high manganese (1.6%). It is essentially 1080, but with the 1.6% Mn added, it is very deep hardening.

 

I use 1086 modified with it a lot, because I bought 5 tons of the steel several years ago, and have a load of it. So I use it for most everything that is not L-6.

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I love L6, Ive just learned the hard way what to use it for..The L6 we have has Moly so there again you have to take that in account when you normalize it because it will air harden..Great stuff though..

You have to take Life by the throat, then you need to chocke it until it spits up what you want!!

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That's good to know. :) Cause I "happen to" come across a small truck load of O-2. It's kind of chunky at 1 1/2" x 2" but I got a big saw! I would imagine that Carpenter L-6 without Moly doesn't have the tendency to air harden? I've got a small boat load of that as well. Part of the L-6 will be rolled to 1/4" and ? (I was hoping you could help me out here.)

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Here we use 5160 for damascus with no problem if you make it at proper temperature, clean surfaces ans borax.

 

As a multilaminate damascus (not mosaics) for large blades having 5160 is a good try.

 

Here is a sanmai billet with 5160 5mm, 15N20 1,2mm each and 1020 .3mm each all done in one step for a knife 45 cm long.

 

15n20chicopaquete.jpg

 

paquetesanmai1.jpg

 

It is was for a machete 25 inches long

 

sanmaiforjado.jpg

 

sanmaiprimerpulido.jpg

 

 

 

sanmaidetalle.jpg

 

 

 

trescu8.jpg

Edited by Marcelo San Pedro

Do not give blades, teach how to forge them.

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Welcome aboard, Marcelo!

 

That's a nice machete. B)

 

You are right, 5160 is fine for that kind of San-Mai construction. I have not had much luck if there is more than one layer of it, though.

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Welcome aboard, Marcelo!

 

That's a nice machete. B)

 

You are right, 5160 is fine for that kind of San-Mai construction. I have not had much luck if there is more than one layer of it, though.

 

Alan I did not give the best example, here is a better one as far as i believe.

 

5160 5mm and 15N20 1,2mm for a mosaic danascus

 

zebraydragon_03.jpg

 

zebraydragon_04.jpg

 

Two bars fron that

 

zebraydragon_11.jpg

 

Cut in small square bars

 

zebraydragon_20.jpg

 

zebraydragon_39.jpg

 

Inside a canister

 

zebraydragon_23.jpg

 

Filled with steel powder with Ni 2%

 

zebraydragon_25.jpg

 

zebraydragon_36.jpg

 

A slice once finished

 

zebraydragon_41.jpg

 

All 5160 and 15N20 (L6)

 

Regards

Do not give blades, teach how to forge them.

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Ariel Salaverria uses a lot of 5160 in his damascus too... I think the 5160 in Argentina must be different from the stuff here, every time I've tried it it ends in misery: wasted time, propane, and steel. If it does weld, it comes apart in the quench.

 

My hat is off to anyone who can make damascus with 5160. I cannot.

George Ezell, bladesmith

" How much useful knowledge is lost by the scattered forms in which it is ushered to the world! How many solitary students spend half their lives in making discoveries which had been perfected a century before their time, for want of a condensed exhibition of what is known."
Buffon


view some of my work

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Well, I can't argue with your success! :lol:

 

My own experience has been the same as George, I can't get it to stick to itself. :(

 

Alan the gods of the austenit and the holy fire some times are not equally fair to all mortals, helping ones and making it difficult to others, without taking into account experience nor effort even with the best ones, personally I've been on both sides....

 

Regards

Do not give blades, teach how to forge them.

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