John Page Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I am probably far from ready to be starting a project like this as far as skill is concerned, but I couldn't stay away.. I figure if nothing else, this will be (and has already been) and excellent learning experience. Pushing myself is the fastest way to grow, and there will be a lot of that going on with this one. The other day, I started work on my first sword, something I have dreamed of doing for many, many years. Along with the forging and HT, which I still have to figure out, I will try casting the fittings, another first. And, as if it couldn't get any better, I'll be trying my first hidden tang on the handle. In all, this will be one heck of a ride. Progress happened fairly quickly on the blade after a nice 6 hours in the shop on Thursday, and although I intend to widen the blade still, it's shaping up nicely. Working the bevels on both sides was an interesting experience, keeping everything aligned and of relatively even thickness. More and more, I find myself learning loads about hammer control and precision. I find I no longer mar the surface hideously due to poor control, and I can better predict where and how the metal is going to move. Give, I still have loads to learn, but I'm getting there. Something I dreaded after the Persian Dagger I've been working on is the transition between the blade and tang. This is still difficult for me, and with the sharp drop on both sides, I had to be careful not to hit the blade while still striking hard enough to thin down the tang. Anyway, I got it close enough and with a little filing it should be in good order. Something I am concerned about however is a small bit on both sides where it started to make an inclusion when flattening out the blade. Is that a problem, and will it potentially lead to cracks? I can work it down with a full round file, but that might make the junction of tang and blade dangerously thin. I may yet be able to flatten the tang some, but much more and it will be approaching the same territory. Sorry for being so long winded, so here's some progress pictures. Anything I might be doing wrong, things I might be doing right, please let me know! Thanks for looking. John edit: the photos are coming out in a weird order again..I'll have to break it up Edited May 12, 2012 by John Page 1 Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Flattening out the blade. Still wishing I had a powerhammer... 1 Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 In the second picture, you can see the start of the tang, and more of it in the third. I didn't get any pictures while I was working on it unfortunately, as I am yet to make a tripod or find a victim to take some pictures for me. 1 Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Stephens Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Good for you, John. The best way to learn, to quote more father, is to "bite off more than you can chew, then chew it." My advice is to not attempt to forge too closely to shape on your first attempt. Leave some material available that you can use to correct asymmetry by grinding. This is especially true for drawing out the tang. It's hard to draw out a tang and have it end up precisely centered on the blade. Leave it a bit wide so you can take some material off of one side to get the whole thing centered. Luck! --Dave 1 -----------------------------------------------"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelthttp://stephensforge.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 And the last of the day's progress. Working on the middle was an interesting experience and the result of many a burned rags and charred gloves. Using tongs didn't work out, so I had to hold it. Not a huge deal, but I neglected to cool the ends as I worked farther down the blade, so it got rather toasty. 1 Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Stephens Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I posted before all you photos were up. That looks pretty darn good! Are you working from a plan? In other words, have you drawn out the profile? If not, it's an important step. At this point I usually cut out the paper design and lay it on the rough forged blade, trace the precise outlines with a silver sharpy (which stands out really well on forge scale), and then profile it to shape. Then I go back and do a final straightening. After that I remove a lot of bevel material using a 4" angle grinder. Then to the belt grinder, then to draw filing. Luck! Dave -----------------------------------------------"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly." -- Theodore Roosevelthttp://stephensforge.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks Dave! I certainly took a big bite, hopefully I don't choke on it The edges are thankfully still fairly thick, and I foresee a considerable amount of filing and sanding in my future. Alas, the only belt sander I have (for the time being) is not oriented with bladesmithing in mind. This week, I'll take some time and file everything down, making it as symmetric and centred as possible. John Must have posted at the same time.. I have an idea in mind, although I don't have a scale drawing. I'll go find some long paper and give that a go. I didn't realize how much that helps (oh, the woes of ignorance!) Thanks for the advice! Edited May 12, 2012 by John Page Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZebDeming Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Awesome work John! I look forward to seeing this come together. Zeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wood Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Very nice start John! I did the exact same thing, Just grabbed some steel and hammered away till it looked like a sword! I did have an idea of what I wanted it to look like but I do agree with Dave. Drawing up a scale design is an important part of making sure everything will come out symmetrical. Good Luck to you on the rest of the finishing! Men are just boys with bigger toys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Not a whole lot of progress on this one, far less than I would like, but I want to do it right. For the better part of a month, it's been sitting propped against my front door frame as a reminder. The general shape is not doing much for me, so I've decided to make some design changes. Instead of having a straight ridgeline running the length of the blade, I am going to fuller it about 5/7 of the way down to the tip, widening the hilt end more than the tip end. First, I'll have to build the fuller. I have never done this before, and have only a general idea of where to start. As far as steel goes, does anything work? I assume it has to be heat treated, or it will just deform under the constant striking. How hard should I go? And for the temper, is it better to draw it back to the HRC40s or lower, or keep it in the upper end of the 50s? I will be going for a spring fuller that I'll clamp to a heavy welding table (anvil's hardy is too small to be effective), unless of course that is a bad idea. Anyway, here's what it's been looking like for a while, most of the pitting taken out over several hours with a file.. Thanks for your input, it's been a heck of a journey already! John Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Looking real good John!!! Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rigoni Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 good stuff, pretty exciting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Colwell Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 rock on, man. I don't do the angle grinder step and just use belt grinder for major removal. When you get close, file the bevels to get the center ridge just right. You have to work down so that you are below the lowest dimple on each side of the blade, and so that all sides are symmetrical, each side will have to be taken as thin as the thinnest facet. If you haven't forged in the distal taper (probably not at this point in your career) then you need to get that on the grinder. The blade should be really thick at base then taper a lot in the first 3 inches, then the taper becomes very gradual (maybe 1/4" over the next 15"), then there is an increase in taper over the part of the blade used for actual cutting. You can do this carefully with the grinder. Find a point where the taper is supposed to change and increase, say about 8" or so from the end of the blade. Start there and grind a pass all the way to the end. Remember where you started, maybe even mark it. Then, move up maybe half an inch and grind a pass from there all the way to the end. Keep doing this until you have worked to the end. This will cause a taper starting from the first point all the way to the end. Go back and repeat on all facets, then start over from wherever you want to make your taper. This technique will give a good and uniform taper and helps keep from taking too much out of one spot. kc please visit my website http://www.professorsforge.com/ “Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” E. V. Debs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thanks gents. Kevin, that helps a Lot! I find that the tip is very thick right now and it has almost a reverse taper That approach sounds very manageable, although I need to get some new belts first. And I need to do a better job of letting acid take the scale off instead of the long way.. Thanks again John Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 Holy dead thread revival!! I can hardly believe that this was 11 years ago now! Looking back I have lived in more than a dozen different places, had half as many different shops between four states, and somehow did not lose this ting. Every few years it seems I would find this sword blade amongst unforged bars of steel in a time old box from the New Jersey Steel Baron. Somewhere along the way, maybe around 2015 or so, I heat treated this at Dave DelaGardelle's first shop in Indiana. I was hoping to find pictures but in the digital age that is virtually time immemorial. The last encounter I have a vague memory of is doing a fair bit of grinding on this around the beginning of Covid when things were slow and not much forging was possible. That vague and inaccurate memory had the grinding somewhere in the rough stage but when I rediscovered the sword in the depths of my trunk I was pleasantly surprised from a profile point of view. The cross section is not bad but has a bit of snipe at the tip, and although the edge needs truing up a little the overall shape is fine for a wee short sword. Inspired to finally finish this blade I forged a rough upper and lower guard, slapped together a handle from the dregs of someone's table cutoffs, and jumped into the laborious trial of hand sanding. It is remarkable how much the character can change from a good 30min of hand sanding to knock off the belt sander finish. Not to say there aren't hours left to go sanding out the deeper blemishes, but ultimately it is starting to finally feel like a sword after all this time. From the same scraps I found two bits of wood that might just be wide enough (literally 1/16" wider than the blade at its widest) that may work for the scabbard as well, so now that all the pieces of the puzzle exist together for the first time, I can truly think over the form of the fittings and how it feels before committing to its shape. For the handle I am thinking of doing a leather wrap, died a dark chestnut to match the dark aesthetic of an eventual bluing of the blade and fittings. Anywho, I thought it was interesting to revisit this old project and maybe before the next decade passes it will actually be done! John Hand for scale- It's a rather short blade, somewhere along the line I reprofiled it and made it a bit sharper in tip geometry from the original rounded nose. Shortly after marking the new guard shape I committed to it and thinned out the tips. Overall much better shape. Before the final fitting I am going to address the shoulders of the blade where it meets the guard and remove those little cuts in to make the termination of the blade parallel. 7 Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua States Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 It.....is....alive! It's alive! Go for it man. I love it. 1 “So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.” The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing. Josh http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg J.States Bladesmith | Facebook https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71 https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Page Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 Nothing much new that's exciting other than leather wrapping the handle. It's the first time I've done that before and I was not quite prepared for how much the dimensions changed after adding some cording to the ends and just above middle. Although the feel is very comfortable, the whole experience was a little haphazard and I may end up redoing it. More than anything however is the change in thickness of the handle near the pommel and now the steel is weird looking in an edgewise profile because it was made based on the thickness of the wooden handle core rather than finished dimension. I think more deliberation is needed but one or the other definitely needs to change. Tweaking the thickness of the pommel will require a secondary change in how the lines flow to make it not visually overlarge compared to the guard. That changing of the pommel may actually be a good thing because the balance is currently a little too far towards the tip for my liking and adding some extra mass down there to blend better with the handle will solve some of that... Not all those who wander are lost. -J.R.R. Tolkien-Shards of the Dark Age- my blog-Nine Worlds Workshop--Last Apocalypse Forge- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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