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DGentile

WIP: Building of TWO Hydraulic Forging Presses

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Hey guys,

I've been busy building two presses for customers of mine... and thought I might document the process.

 

Finished press:

jWeLrr.jpg

the whole project was not without a few glitches - including a hydraulic supplier who simply did not deliver for a damn too long time, my MIG/MAG welder dying on me (and having to get a costly new unit) and a few other things... but aside from this - here's the stuff so far:

frames have been made, cylinders are in place - support table (the presses are going to be on a cart with the hydraulic unit fittet beneath...) is in progress.
next week the tables will be finished, the hoses connected and of course a paint-job (battleship-gray) is in order as well...


here's a wee bit of material I've collected for the presses - the two are going to be slightly different from each other due to different customer requirements.One is going to have a 40mm hole in the bottom die - holder to allow punching dies to be used on the press... also the guy wanted the frame a tad more rigid than the basic model.there's another bit of material already cut into pieces... not photographed though



Hydraulic power-station... each is a 400V 3phase system with 5.5kW (7.4HP) and a two-stage pump (23cm3/min // 6cm3/min) - operating pressure 200bar (2900psi)
The tank has 60liters volume (which is a tad too much imho - but it helps to keep the system cool) -- the whole unit was manufactured according to my specs.




Machning the hole in the bottom die-holder...
this will be 40mm diameter - predrilled to 30mm (as this is the max capacity for my large drill press) and then enlarged using the boring head on the mill.
the plate has a thickness of 1" solid.


The die holders and the die-guides mounted in place by pins... the pins are just for alignment - this way I can easily weld it in place and don't have to worry about adjusting them.

machining the side-guides...
those are machined from 40x50mm solid alloy steel.
they will be bolted into a channel on the ram and guide it vertically.
(sorry for the smudgy photo - but that's the result from having coolant on the mobile-phone wink.gif ).

Drilling the core diameter for a metric M12 (12mm) thread into the die holder... the whole ram / guide is a bolted construction - reinforced by some welding...
that's a 10.2mm drill bit, straight into a 25mm (1") piece of steel (120mm wide, 220mm high (so the drill press is pretty big wink.gif ), 25mm thick).
after drilling all the holes I use my trusty thread cutting head on the drill press to put all those M12 threads in there...


The finally assembled ram + guides - on the drill press for a reference



again the ram & guide - also the bottom die holder... before the ram get's it's welding done (all the inside "seams" will be welded - but the guide block and the top-piece which will be the adapter for the cylinder will remain removable)





That's the other ram - from the slightly beefed-up model... worth noting: the bolts on the guide-blocks go about 40mm into the MIDDLE section of the solid center plate wink.gif
also different from the normal mode: the top-plate used to mount the cylinder to is also 25mm thick steel and has a 50mm (2") hole in the middle which will take a reduced (turned) section of the cylinders piston and then will be welded in place)


the following two photos show my method to center the cylinder exactly in place... I've drilled a hole right in the center of the top and bottom cylinder / piston mounting platen and inserted a pin. the cylinder and piston both have centering-holes of corresponding diameter machined into them.

same thing for the top of the cylinder... the bolted on side bars will be welded on to the cylinder's top ... this way the cylinder will be easy to remove if maintenance is needed.

cylinder welded in place:




Frame test-assembled... it's not adjusted or aligned... just clamped to see if it matches the CAD drawings.



questions of course welcome wink.gif

Daniel

updated photos (all the photo links were broken, as I had moved photo-hosting to a different server... unfortunately due to change in naming structure I was not able to quickly re-link the photos...)... alas, just in random order below..

Q2ScmB.jpg
9UIKF4.jpg
IxfMkp.jpg
mJlGlp.jpg
9xLsZZ.jpg
f32Voy.jpg
X443ct.jpg
4MvTLr.jpg
k2tYAS.jpg
4U8jqi.jpg
lNMZEC.jpg
7MtD7g.jpg
rvFKvd.jpg
k8y19g.jpg

Edited by DGentile

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Damn fine machining work as usual Daniel.

 

I enjoyed my burner very much but my brother needed it more for his foundry at present.

 

I have been coveting one of those hydraulic presses for a while now and although I can't afford one right at this very moment I'm sure I will at some point later next year. Now I know who to check with. ;)

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thanks...

 

quick update:

%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

 

 

 

both of the presses are now on a table... (not yet fixed)...

 

still missing - hydraulic hoses, mount for the valve and link to a foot-treadle, some clean-up grinding and a paintjob... of course the wiring as well..

 

hopefully all's done by next week.

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Why oh why would you weld the cylinders in? can they be completely serviced/rebuilt in place?

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Hey guys,

 

 

Hope you enjoyed the show so far...

 

questions of course welcome ;)

 

Daniel

 

 

Dan,

 

Enjoying it very much...that is a nice build going on. In your description of the pump you use 23 and 6 cm3 per minute...I am having a hard time converting that to gallons or inches3 per minute....I get an answer but it does not make sense.

Any idea of what it is in gallons per minute?

Jan

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Why oh why would you weld the cylinders in? can they be completely serviced/rebuilt in place?

 

Sam - the cylinders are not really welded in place ;)

 

basically the top part of the cylinder is welded to the flat-bar with the holes & bolts at the top and the piston is welded to a platen that's mounted to the "Ram" by bolts...

So everything - including the cylinder, guide-blocks, ram can be taken out for servicing.

 

The reason for not going with the standard "eyelets" was to increase stability (less moving parts - more direct force applied) and more importantly to save height...

imagine those flat bars and platen on the cylinder to be nothing but another form of mounting.

 

btw. Non-standard mounts on cylinders are quite common in mechanics and custom machinery.... the cylinder manufacturers are really used to send out "blank" cylinders.

Edited by DGentile

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Dan,

 

Enjoying it very much...that is a nice build going on. In your description of the pump you use 23 and 6 cm3 per minute...I am having a hard time converting that to gallons or inches3 per minute....I get an answer but it does not make sense.

Any idea of what it is in gallons per minute?

Jan

 

Jan

 

Thanks...

 

The reason why it does not make any sense: IT's WRONG! blink.gif

 

Obviously my shop-troll did the typing... don't blame me.

 

22cm3 with each rotation of the pump - motor does 2900 RPM -> that 22*2900 = 63'800cm3/min = 0.0638m3/min = 2.25cubic feet/min = 16.85 Gallons/min (US Gallons)

6cm3 / U-1 = 2900*6 = 17400cm3/min = 0.0174mr/min = 0.61cf/m = 4.59 gallons/min (US Gallons)

 

I hope I've done this the right way... the whole imperial conversion stuff still isn't my strong-suit.

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Jan

 

Thanks...

 

The reason why it does not make any sense: IT's WRONG! blink.gif

 

Obviously my shop-troll did the typing... don't blame me.

 

22cm3 with each rotation of the pump - motor does 2900 RPM -> that 22*2900 = 63'800cm3/min = 0.0638m3/min = 2.25cubic feet/min = 16.85 Gallons/min (US Gallons)

6cm3 / U-1 = 2900*6 = 17400cm3/min = 0.0174mr/min = 0.61cf/m = 4.59 gallons/min (US Gallons)

 

I hope I've done this the right way... the whole imperial conversion stuff still isn't my strong-suit.

 

Dan,

Thank you...very clearly explained and a very fast press....I assume control is maintained using stop blocks during the drawing out process.

Jan

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Dan,

Thank you...very clearly explained and a very fast press....I assume control is maintained using stop blocks during the drawing out process.

Jan

 

Jan,

 

Aye - they're pretty quick ;)

 

My own press similar specs ... at first I used stop blocks mostly... then got used to it so much that for most parts I can do without - but of course it helps if you need precision.

 

I guess how the two owners of these new presses will work will be up to them ;) I'll make a few suggestions and stuff... but in the end .

One guy is a professional blacksmith and he is interested in the die-forging capabilities and hot-punching... he's got a nice powehammer for drawing out stock.

the other one is a knifemaker...

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Finally done with both of them:

 

 

here's a video (40sec) of one of the new owners operating the press for the first time (it's not myself in the video...)

 

<iframe src="https://docs.google.com/a/dgentile.com/file/d/0B7K5rmyBWNuXSW5UM3E3ekRTRU0/preview" width="640" height="385"></iframe>

 

P1014591.jpg?format=750w

 

 

P1014590.jpg?format=500w

 

 

 

if you want to see more photos:

http://www.stahlmech...ojekte/hydpress

 

(btw. www.stahlmechanik.com is a side project of mine - it's my shop, but I keep the knife stuff separated from the mechanical / machining / fabricating business ).

 

Let me know what you think...

 

Daniel

Edited by DGentile

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Great looking presses.

 

Tell me if I have this right, 7.4 HP driving a 16.85/4.59 GPM high/low pump at 2900 psi max. What are the specs on the cylinders?

 

Thanks, Andrew

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Great looking presses.

 

Tell me if I have this right, 7.4 HP driving a 16.85/4.59 GPM high/low pump at 2900 psi max. What are the specs on the cylinders?

 

Thanks, Andrew

 

Andrew

 

thanks...

 

specs are correct - if I didn't fuck up the metric to us conversion... ;)

 

Cylinder is a 70mm (2.75") shaft, 120mm bore (4.8") and a 200mm stroke (7.9")

 

Also worth noting is that the motor is bi-wired to 400/690V 3phase...

That thing has quite some torque.

 

The tank-unit contains the pump, oil-return-line-filter, suction strainer, temperature gauge / level gauge...

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Dan, your presses are amazing, i remember the first video you put up of the one you buiilt, the speed and power was STUNNING. Very cool, man.

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Thanks Sam!!

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That's some serious power. Dan, do you think it would be worth building one with a 1hp/120 volt power pack? I have a 3" bore enerpac cylinder which I'm hoping I can get around 7 tons of squish at a respectable speed.

Also, I really like that frame design. It's a good use of easily available materials.

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Brian

 

Well to be honest I think the components you've got - with a 1HP / single phase motor will not yield you enough power / speed to create a good forging press.

 

the main problem is your 1HP motor - 1HP will not yield enough torque to power a proper pump. and that would most likely be the end of your project.

 

2HP would be an absolute minimum here. The motor on my presses are 7.4HP - on a three phase system (400V/690V bi-wired).

That's a lot of motor.... and certainly you can get away with less...

my two stage pump makes almost 17gpm in high and 5gpm in low mode... that's also really a lot...

also I'd go with at least a 4" cylinder... and make sure you can get at the very least 1" per second...

with a 4" you'd need a pump capable of at least 3.5GPM - that's not too much though.,..

 

pressure... with a 4" if it's accordingly rated I'd go with one that can handle at least 1000psi... - that would give you around approx 7 tons of pressure. not that much, but should get you somewhere with forging...

 

Motor HP = Pressure x Gallons Per Minute / 1550 (according to Jim Batson, who has an excellent book on hydraulic presses - offered through don foggs website...):

1000x3.5/1550= 2.2HP...

 

There's more math to the whole thing...

But you can easily see, that with 1HP you don't get anywhere.

 

If you make an all-welded frame: make sure you know your welding.... there's a lot of stress put on the frame, and you need to be REALLY SURE that the materials selected for the frame and your welding can handle the amount of force.

Build Oversized and weld properly (sometimes you've got tripple up, prepare the materials properly by grinding in weld-grooves, etc...) and you need a proper MIG/MAG or MMA welded for that... MIG/MAG with at least 200 Amps (preferably a bit more... mine's a 280A model with 1.2mm wire, industrial thing with a powerful 4-wheel feed). A good MMA Inverter is cheaper - but it's a bit more tricky if you lack the experience...

 

if you're not too sure about welding (?) - go with a welded / bolted construction... less to go wrong.

 

 

 

Some guys have successfully converted larger log-splitters for the purpose... probably not perfect, but easy to find.

 

hope that helps

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Thanks Dan. What I really need is moar power! In the form of 240v/100amps to the shop. The way it's wired now, I have 2x20A circuits. One runs the air compressor and lights, the other is for machines.

Way too low.

I built the H-frame for my air over press from 4" I-beams. It's held up for the last 3 years. Each joint is a 3-pass fillet weld.

I don't think I'd use this frame for the next press.

 

The air/hydraulic cylinder is one of the HF 20 ton capacity ones, but I have no idea how much it's actually pushing.

It smashes and draws billets fine, but the cycle time is too slow. I'm seeing about 30 strokes per minute I think.

It takes about 3 days to get 10 layer billet to 80 layers, drawn and ready for shaping two or three blades. I'd like to get that down to one day of smashing per billet.

Switching from propane to charcoal helped a lot, but now the press is slowing everything down.

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Brian

 

Just to give you an idea about speed / power:

 

with my press / forge setup I can make 300-400 layer billet in about half a day - enough for a sword or three knives.

That time does however NOT include the preparation of the material... cleaning (grinding), cutting, assembling... half a work day = about 5 hours.

 

So yes - more power is saving you lots of work in the long run... in that I agree, you need more juice at your shop...

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re-linked / reinserted the previously broken photos...

(had moved photo hosting... sorry)

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Thank you for the info here daniel. Great presses! I'm working on a much smaller press (in another thread) and you've given me some formulas to work with that should help on my build.

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Never had the finished press photos uploaded:

 

 

B9kPJG.jpg4qsNpi.jpgn5FMy7.jpgLE0FHe.jpgKJkseO.jpgdenj7k.jpg7UtHUY.jpgjWeLrr.jpg

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