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More advice on another composite billet...


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Here we go again! I like forging these thick bars into swords but I'm always left wondering what I'm going to do to the pattern with all the drawing out and grinding. It's 28" long and 5/8" thick. The edge bars are shear steel and the core is 2 bars of twisted 15n20/1084 and 1 bar of 1095/1045 straight laminate... ground for the serpent.

 

This project requires a 29"- 30" blade. You can't tell from the picture that I've posted.. but the twists are quite a bit tighter below where the picture was taken. I'm probably going to go with a Geibig type 1 or 2 blade.

 

So.. what steps would folks recommend from here? Should I go ahead and forge down to 1/4" thickness and then cut and save the rest for another project? But forging will affect the pattern more than grinding as long as my twists are tight??

 

Well I'm excited to have what seems like a solid double edge composite bar... but I don't want to blow the pattern.

 

644335_520868834621209_904233043_n.jpg

 

558080_520868841287875_149878660_n.jpg

Edited by Scott A. Roush
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what other option do you have? grinding the billet to size will affect the pattern as much or more than forging the thickness.

the bad news is I think that your twists are a bit loose for what you are going for on this. mostly I say that due to the bar being 5/8" at this twist. I don't normaly weld at this thickness so I might be wrong on this.

A rule I use is twist as tight as I think it needs to be then twist it tighter..... if I think it is going to sheer stop and take another heat and twist HOT! care full forging can also keep the stretch in pattern down by forging more of the material into width the apparent stretch is less. the good news is that it will still look rockin even if the pattern is stretched out !

MP

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Thanks Matthew... I will take another picture tomorrow but I really let those twists loosen up towards the tip. But I probably didn't take it as far as I should. Twisting is new to me and I fear shearing. But I like your advice.

 

But yeah.. my choice would be between leaving it at basically this size or maybe forging it out another 2 inches and doing heavy grinding. However I really don't have the heart to grind away that much work. I like the optimism of your last sentence. :-)

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Okay I'm forging this blade right now and I'm going to have it (for now) at 3/8" and will most likely come out to have 40" long.

 

What would folks recommend for thickness before I proceed to grind? I like how Dave Stephen's forges is out to an even thickness for getting a nice fuller grind...

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Looking good, Scott!

 

I take mine down to 1/4" thickness before grinding in the fuller. And you're right, even thickness before you begin grinding is the key (well, one of them) to an even fuller. Learned that the hard way on the sword I made with the Mad Dwarves.

 

Shame that almost 3/4's of the PW steel we forge ends up as dust on the floor, isn't it?

 

--Dave

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Looking good, Scott!

 

I take mine down to 1/4" thickness before grinding in the fuller. And you're right, even thickness before you begin grinding is the key (well, one of them) to an even fuller. Learned that the hard way on the sword I made with the Mad Dwarves.

 

Shame that almost 3/4's of the PW steel we forge ends up as dust on the floor, isn't it?

 

--Dave

 

While it's a real pain to deal with (not speaking from PW experience, because I'm ever so slowly teaching myself that skill) the one thing I don't mind about extra grinding, is that I save all the steel dust and shavings and store them in a bucket. Most of what I work with is carbon steel anyways, so the shavings will just be added to my next smelt. I'm not sure what problems that could create, but I'm definitely willing to find out. :D

 

-Jon

Edited by Jon Stormm
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Good to know, because I have a bunch of it sitting around in my shop (as long as no one has moved anything while I've been gone) for this summers smelt. This actually puts my mind at ease about the outcome. Thanks, Dave!

 

-Jon

Edited by Jon Stormm
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I would say that to get the most out of your twists you will want to grind away 1/2 the thickness (1/4 from each side of the billet). The less you grind away, the less of the 'star' that will be exposed (http://www.vikingsword.com/fimo.pdf). Something I've noticed about the 'serpent twist' is that the opposite seems to be true... the more you grind away, the straighter the serpent appears... this causes a slight logistical problem, something to consider while composing a billet.... If you've ground in the serpent (a long slow ladder pattern on edge), this will not be a problem.

 

Note the pile of grinder dust, and charge accordingly... :)

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Thanks a lot guys...

 

Yeah George I was looking at those clay experiment diagrams earlier today. Made me feel better. I've ground the ..what is now.. 43"! billet to 1/4" so we shall see! As to the 'serpent'... I just ground as you say. But I didn't have that much to work with so I don't expect to have a strong serpent.

 

Anyway.. more shall be revealed tomorrow. I'm excited.. Should get a 30" viking and maybe a Celtic short sword or gladius out of it...

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Ive done as you have I have a 2 hander and viking sword billet that got so stretched for my liking.

Each half twist gives one star in the final pattern. I often do 2 full twists per cm and then draw out the blade acordingly.

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Owen.. these patterns are new to me.. but I think it turned out okay? It survived the quench .. and I have a star every 4 half twists I think. And they even seem lined up. I'm stoked.

 

644699_522808914427201_414540334_n.jpg

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