Sveinn Kallinen Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Hey, newbie here. I'm new to the forums, and they are indeed awesome! But have forged a bit for the past few years. Mainly my problems have always been that I can't have a permanent forge set up, so I spend as much time cobbling up a set up as I do using it... Anyways I have been using lump charcoal for all my forging over the years, and the two brands I have used, are definatly not optimal for forging. I want to set up a gas forge, but I need to design the right one before I drop very much money on materials. So. I suppose I am looking for advice. I Kinda want to know: A, Which type of charcoal is best, hardwood or softwood. B, Would it be better to screw around trying to make it myself or just find a supplier as I can't imagine needing very much. C, Where the heck a supplier for forging quality charcoal could be found. I tried google to no avail. I may just say the heck with it and get going on a gas forge... Looking forward to your guys responses! Sveinn For the less, even as for the greater, there is but one deed which he may accomplish only once, and in that deed his heart shall rest. I may not have a fiery beard (yet), but it is fire colored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBrackett Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 (edited) Kayne & Son has coal but they are in NC. Get a gas one. USA Knife Supply I believe is the name of a place that has a small one at a low price. You can put it away after it cools if you need to. Welcome to the forum! Edited May 26, 2013 by GBrackett ”Whoever pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity, and honor!” George Brackett American Bladesmith's Society, Apprentice Member Hialeah, Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 I've not noticed a difference between hardwood and softwood charcoal. If you're going to buy, you'll probably find it meant to be use for cooking over and that means hardwood and maybe not completely charred. If you have a woodburning stove, you can sift the ashes for the bits of charcoal that's left. Or you could do the same from a campfire or bonfire. If you want to go with gas, there are plans available. ron Having watched government for some time, it has become obvious that our government is no longer for the people. If the current trend continues, it won't be long untill armed rebellion is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sveinn Kallinen Posted May 26, 2013 Author Share Posted May 26, 2013 Wow! Thanks for the fast replies. GBrackett - I think I got you slightly confused. I have a charcoal forge. I want a gas one, but from my research its much smarter to build rather than buy, since then you have some experiance you will need to repair the forge. son_of_bluegrass - Yea, the stuff I have gotten is intended for BBQ and usually has brown ends. One big problem is it is often overcharred and sparky, lots of fines, and usually doesn't work well for forging. As far as making charcoal, I have used firepit leftovers, and even once made around a 30gal bag full, just dousing a well charred campfire like tim lively suggests on his forging DVD. I ended up with very hard, hard to burn chunks and kinda swore off it till I figured out what I was doing. I'm seriously considering just going gas now. It seems so much simpler and unless you have a good system to produce, charcoal is probably just as expensive. Although I do like forging with it. From my readings I get the feeling that I will probably want a blown 8" vertical. Seems like that will do what I want which is forging, plus starting some damascus billets. Sveinn For the less, even as for the greater, there is but one deed which he may accomplish only once, and in that deed his heart shall rest. I may not have a fiery beard (yet), but it is fire colored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanwrath Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 The local Blacksmith guild buys coal for forging by the ton........its not super expensive, although interestingly enough, the cost per hour to run the charcoal vs. the propane is roughly equal last time i figured it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Abbott Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 The historic site I volunteer at buys charcoal by the pallet every year (BBQ grade). We've had both Royal Oak and Cowboy brand. I like the Royal Oak better, but when it's free, I'll take what I can get. Our local Lowes had the big bags of Cowboy on sale this past weekend for $9.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sveinn Kallinen Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 yea the home depot nearby (ya, right 60 miles away) has cowboy, and the menards next door to that carries royal oak. I've found both to be usually overcharred and with weird stuff in them. one time i opened up a bag and halfway through it I found a huge chunk of melted plastic lol! anyways, do you guys know if they give you a volume discount? can't find the big bags anywhere... For the less, even as for the greater, there is but one deed which he may accomplish only once, and in that deed his heart shall rest. I may not have a fiery beard (yet), but it is fire colored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Keyes Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 If you are going to gas (and I won't make any of the jokes that come to mind), you need to decide between venturi and blown. I'm a blown guy (jeez, more jokes), myself, and there is a pinned topic here about burners. There is another pinned topic on building forges here. They are worth your time to read. Geoff "The worst day smithing is better than the best day working for someone else." I said that. If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly. - - -G. K. Chesterton So, just for the record: the fact that it does work still should not be taken as definitive proof that you are not crazy. Grant Sarver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If you are interested in a volume discount, you can try asking a manager what the price would be for a pallet. You may get a good price or maybe not. Having watched government for some time, it has become obvious that our government is no longer for the people. If the current trend continues, it won't be long untill armed rebellion is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Jewell Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If you are going to gas (and I won't make any of the jokes that come to mind), you need to decide between venturi and blown. I'm a blown guy (jeez, more jokes), myself, and there is a pinned topic here about burners. There is another pinned topic on building forges here. They are worth your time to read. Geoff Hey... there are children on this forum “Fire and air, earth and water, were once considered the four elemental substances of our world. Among the ancients only the blacksmith worked with all four.” - From The Art of Blacksmithing by Alex W. Bealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganCD Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I'm both gathering items for a gas forge and experimenting with making charcoal these days. It means I don't get a whole lot of forging done, but having used barbecue charcoal and some of my own softwood stuff, I can say that the difference is measurable and vast. It's like night and day. Apart from the burning properties, (softwood lights faster, burns hotter, less ash and fines) the softwood is more pleasant to tend because of the way the pieces move over eachother. the hardwood kind of grabs onto itself and you end up moving the whole fire around, the softwood is... well... softer. the pieces slide over eachother. I'm not buying any more charcoal. it's gas or homemade for me. Also, the air seems to move through the softwood a little better. -Morgan Morgan C. Davison In order to bring spirit, originality, and excellence to everything you do, you must make living an art, a journey, and a discipline. Through one thing, know ten thousand things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan O'Connor Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) , but having used barbecue charcoal and some of my own softwood stuff, I can say that the difference is measurable and vast. It's like night and day. Also, the air seems to move through the softwood a little better. -Morgan Absolutely right Morgan. If I only had hardwood charcoal to forge with, I would switch completely to gas. Maybe others can make it work for welding and such but it I consider it useless. You have to want to use charcoal for the experience of it. There is a lot of time spent prepping charcoal and tending a charcoal fire. I like it and chose to work this way. But gas lets you concentrate more on forging. Some charcoal making info if interested. http://www.katanabuilders.com/katanablog/charcoal/ Edited June 2, 2013 by Danocon Dan O'Connor https://nuclayer.com https://www.facebook.com/NuClayerSystems/ https://www.instagram.com/daniel.oconnor.twinoaks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sveinn Kallinen Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 right, I enjoy the operation of the charcoal, i just have never had a good forge till now and now i'm nearly out of charcoal. my attempts at making charcoal this past weekend failed miserably... just surface char on the wood. w/e... the only softwoods in driving distance are spruce, balsam, and poplar. For the less, even as for the greater, there is but one deed which he may accomplish only once, and in that deed his heart shall rest. I may not have a fiery beard (yet), but it is fire colored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Jewell Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 for soft wood to make your own charcoal, look into local construction companies (especially manufactured home factories) as well any wood mills and disposal companies. They are sometimes willing to part with off cuts and scrap. “Fire and air, earth and water, were once considered the four elemental substances of our world. Among the ancients only the blacksmith worked with all four.” - From The Art of Blacksmithing by Alex W. Bealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Bland Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I am currently wringing out a wood fired forge. Whitlox Homestead. It is really working pretty well. It is well worth looking at and is pretty reasonable. I will be posting a video soon of the forge in use as I forge a throwing knife. Check out u-tube. Wood fired forge. If you run, you will only die tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sveinn Kallinen Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 So I checked in to Royal Oak and Cowboy charcoal, carried at Menards and Home Depot respectively. Royal Oak - $5.98 per 8.8lb bag. I asked a special order "Salesman" about buying a pallet of the charcoal, and after 15 min of grunting and furious typing he came up with 49 bags on a pallet, or $293.02. 49 8.8lb bags adds up to 431.2lb's. So the price per pound, unless I'm horribly wrong is (rounded up) $0.68/lb. When I asked about any kind of discount since it was a large order, he phoned his boss, and they came up with $0.25 off per bag. price per bag now is $5.73/bag or $280.77/pallet, which is $0.66/lb. If I bought it on or before this Saturday (the 8th) I would also qualify for an additional 11% rebate, which would bring the cost down further to $5.10/bag or $249.90/pallet, which decreases cost/pound to $0.58/lb. Cowboy - $7.48 per 8.8lb bag Same sort of deal as at menards, except it took 45 min. It was also quite busy at menards and nearly empty at home depot. anyways, they said that the Cowboy charcoal came 40 to a pallet (352lb), or $299.20, which is $0.85/lb. When I asked about any kind of discount since it was a large order, they immediately, without even looking, told me not at all. Unless I bought $2500 of charcoal or other stuff there is not a single bit of a discount. I've used both but I can't remember which one I liked more since I have been using the Royal Oak for the last 3ish years. The Royal Oak is VASTLY cheaper if I get the rebate, and I have heard that the Royal Oak is better stuff. I tend to find lots of bark in the Royal Oak. I have, a few years ago, found a huge chunk of molten plastic in a bag of Cowboy charcoal. I likely won't be buying a pallet by Saturday, and I'm considering whether I should drop $300 bucks on Charcoal, or on Propane. By the looks of things I could build a nice forge for $300. Sveinn. For the less, even as for the greater, there is but one deed which he may accomplish only once, and in that deed his heart shall rest. I may not have a fiery beard (yet), but it is fire colored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Abbott Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Personally, I like the Royal Oaks better. It seems to be denser and less "sparky" than the Cowboy. Also, I bought a bag of Cowboy last week for the grill and it had quite a few brown pieces plus some of the chunks were huge. Seems like the RO is a bit more uniform in color and shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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