9" W1 Chef's WIP

[C.Anderson 13]

Thanks for the videos James! I've honestly been thinking about picking up his video. He's VERY well known for his Japanese kitchen knives, and sharpness is NOT something people complain about with his work, lol.

 

So...I got the handle all shaped out today. I'm much happier with it than I expected. It was originally supposed to just be the raspberry cottonwood burl and brass...but I convinced the recipient that some darker tones in there would set it off well. I'm very glad I did! The pictures absolutely don't do it justice. In bright light it quickly draws attention, but in normal home type lighting, it actually looks relatively classy. I was definitely worried it would be too 'showy'. Like I said though, I'm pretty happy with the result .

 

Getting the thing broke down to a true rectangle in order to get my grind lines scribed out.

 

Once I get it squared up, I put it on the knife so I can refine the proportions and make sure everything looks right.

 

Getting the bevels formed...this is an 80 grit finish. Once I get it all shaped up, I begin refining all the planes with progressively finer grits. Up to 600 grit is done with belts, while 800, 1000, and 1200 are done by hand.

 

And here we are. Again, my pictures are pretty crappy at catching the chatoyance in the wood, and the overall geometric quality of the handle. I really need to rebuild a light box, lol.

 

One more picture on my inside workbench so you can see how the lines work with the blade and handle combined.

 

Anyway, for the rest of the evening I'm going to be refining some things on the blade...tomorrow I'll most likely spend repolishing the whole thing, and maybe get it into its final fit up. I guess after that I'll go ahead and build a light box and see about getting some real pictures, lol.

 

Thanks again guys for following along so far...its been fun .

Edited July 31, 2013 by C.Anderson

[R. Yates 1]

I was not sure about the handle material you had put together at first Yuck ! and then you slicked it up and Man it came alive and Looks absolutely Beautiful, the Octagon grind set it off showing that you definitely mad the best choice with the handle that Knife is going to be a prize when you get done . Superb Job !

 

Sam

[C.Anderson 13]

I was not sure about the handle material you had put together at first Yuck ! and then you slicked it up and Man it came alive and Looks absolutely Beautiful, the Octagon grind set it off showing that you definitely mad the best choice with the handle that Knife is going to be a prize when you get done . Superb Job !

 

Sam

 

Thanks Sam! I certainly hope so, lol. I know my friend is absolutely freaking out about it...which makes the 40+hrs work more than worth it...lol.

 

I was talking with another friend who is a professional chef, and he told me this style of knife (I didn't realize it was a 'style'...lol, I just built what I'd like to cut with) is becoming more common. It's basically a gyuto, but is shorter on the heel, with a bit more of a slicing edge profile. He says everyone is calling them 'gyutohiki'...since its a combination of a typical 'gyuto' (http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1235203022-Img725.jpg), which is an all around knife and can have many different edge profiles and still fit the name, and a 'sujihiki' (http://www.knifewear.com/img/knives4sale/knives/37sujihiki270-big.jpg) which is more of a dedicated slicing blade. Since many guys are turning to more edge based technique, versus the traditional rocking technique...I guess its becoming something of a popular style.

[Martin Schutte 0]

Dude this is a sweet looking looking knife thanx for the wip and sharing all of youre "Trade Secrets" so to speak!!

 

I think its worth to try and make an excellent cutting tool like this for myself, I`m going to use 1070 and do a sweet Hamon on it!!

 

Thanx Again Martin

[C.Anderson 13]

Dude this is a sweet looking looking knife thanx for the wip and sharing all of youre "Trade Secrets" so to speak!!

 

I think its worth to try and make an excellent cutting tool like this for myself, I`m going to use 1070 and do a sweet Hamon on it!!

 

Thanx Again Martin

 

 

Thank you Martin...and no problem! Like I've said in the past, virtually all I know about bladesmithing...I learned here. If I can give back some by paying it forward and helping others in their efforts, well...its only right that I do so .

Edited July 31, 2013 by C.Anderson

[James Spurgeon 22]

Glad the videos were on track with what you were looking for. I know my knives have gotten much sharper since I started using his techniques.

 

I really like how that handle is turning out! I need to give a stacked handle a go on one of my next knives.

 

 

Carter's 3 finger test isn't to detect the burr, but to determine the level of sharpness based on toothiness (so a highly polished edge will fail the test). Essentially he's letting the edge "bite" into the surface of the skin.

IMO, this is a common miss-application of edge theory, so deserves clarification. However, I do not want to derail this thread so I will attempt to be brief: The "toothiness" as you say IS the burr. Which is why a stropped or polished edge will "fail" that particular test. However, you can't get a polished sharp edge without passing through the burr stage, which is where the miss-application of theory occurs. Many assume that an edge burr is an edge burr and the presence of any burr indicates a specific level of sharpness that can only be refined further by polishing or stropping. This common misconception may be why Murray does not use the term "burr" to describe what he is feeling for. A burr forms when the edge is too thin for that grit to efficiently cut and begins folding over instead, indicating you have reached the sharpest edge reasonably obtainable with that grit, assuming proper technique. That is why Murray is using the burr to indicate when to move on to the next level of grit. With Japanese water stone techniques, "level of sharpness" as an overgeneralized concept is indicated by the grit of stone upon which the edge was "finished". "Finished" being defined roughly as achieving the burr point for the specified grit and then back stropping on the same stone or on a stropping steel to refine (some say align) the burr. With the experience level of someone like Murray Carter, the feel of the burr will be enough to judge what grit formed it and therefore the blade's "level of sharpness". Polishing or leather stropping the edge removes the burr, making a razor more comfortable on the skin as Murray notes, but it also makes it more difficult to judge the sharpness of the blade without actually cutting something.

 

As a side note; According to Wayne Goddard, at any given level of sharpness, leaving a refined burr edge (he uses the term "wire edge") makes the better slicing edge, but polishing to remove the burr (leather stropping being one common technique) will improve the blade's ability to push cut without a slicing motion.

Sorry if that went too far afield,

James

[C.Anderson 13]

Glad the videos were on track with what you were looking for. I know my knives have gotten much sharper since I started using his techniques.

 

I really like how that handle is turning out! I need to give a stacked handle a go on one of my next knives.

 

 

IMO, this is a common miss-application of edge theory, so deserves clarification. However, I do not want to derail this thread so I will attempt to be brief: The "toothiness" as you say IS the burr. Which is why a stropped or polished edge will "fail" that particular test. However, you can't get a polished sharp edge without passing through the burr stage, which is where the miss-application of theory occurs. Many assume that an edge burr is an edge burr and the presence of any burr indicates a specific level of sharpness that can only be refined further by polishing or stropping. This common misconception may be why Murray does not use the term "burr" to describe what he is feeling for. A burr forms when the edge is too thin for that grit to efficiently cut and begins folding over instead, indicating you have reached the sharpest edge reasonably obtainable with that grit, assuming proper technique. That is why Murray is using the burr to indicate when to move on to the next level of grit. With Japanese water stone techniques, "level of sharpness" as an overgeneralized concept is indicated by the grit of stone upon which the edge was "finished". "Finished" being defined roughly as achieving the burr point for the specified grit and then back stropping on the same stone or on a stropping steel to refine (some say align) the burr. With the experience level of someone like Murray Carter, the feel of the burr will be enough to judge what grit formed it and therefore the blade's "level of sharpness". Polishing or leather stropping the edge removes the burr, making a razor more comfortable on the skin as Murray notes, but it also makes it more difficult to judge the sharpness of the blade without actually cutting something.

 

As a side note; According to Wayne Goddard, at any given level of sharpness, leaving a refined burr edge (he uses the term "wire edge") makes the better slicing edge, but polishing to remove the burr (leather stropping being one common technique) will improve the blade's ability to push cut without a slicing motion.

Sorry if that went too far afield,

James

 

Thanks James! I really am liking the handle too. I knew the 'style' would look ok...but I was definitely unsure how the materials would play together. She wanted the raspberry burl (badly lol), but I'm the one who had to figure out how to use the stuff semi tastefully. The other option I was considering was to do the entire handle out of the raspberry burl...with a simple 1/8" brass or nickel silver spacer about an inch in from the blade to offset it in an understated manner. I think that would have worked also...but this is something both she and her clients will appreciate more.

 

On the sharpness thing...don't ever worry about derailing one of my threads with MORE information, lol.

 

On that topic, I wonder on the whole 'toothiness' vs 'edge burr' thing though. I know often on kitchen knives people will polish up the edge to an insane grit, then back up to a slightly coarser grit ( for a pass or two on each side. In my mind this wouldn't form a burr...but would absolutely break the shiny polished edge up with 'micro serrations' (like microscopic steak knives). They do this to assist with slicing things like soft body, hard skinned fruits (tomatoes, plums, etc). Push cutting efficiency is only minimally reduced, but the gain in slicing efficiency is huge.

 

Its funny...on all of my other knives, razor sharpness is very simple to achieve. But on these paper thin kitchen knives, it almost seems like a whole other skill set.

[C.Anderson 13]

Little by little its getting closer to being finished.

 

Last night I sealed a couple of the eyes (and a few larger gaps...there's lots of small ones) in the handle with CA glue, so today I sanded it all back down and rebuffed it. Once that was done, I decided to go ahead and etch my maker's mark into the right side flat using salt water and an old battery charger. I previously wrote up a full tutorial of the etching process http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=17602&hl='>here, but I'll go over it again quickly with the pictures.

 

First you need a resist. I had mine made at kinko's. They did a creditable job of turning the graphic I gave them into a vinyl stencil. I got hundreds of the things for $20 if I recall (its been pushing four years ago now, lol).

 

Electrical tape to keep any electrified etchant (again...salt water) from contacting any part of the blade other than where I want it. The tape also helps reduce the possibility of me touching the blade with the electrified leads...which would be sorta bad lol.

 

Here's how you hook up the positive and negative leads. In order to etch, you dip the q-tip in the salt water, pat it on the towel so its not completely saturated to the point of dripping...hook it to the negative lead(so the lead is touching the wet q-tip...make SURE its high enough not to accidentally contact the blade)...then gently pat the area to be etched. It'll bubble and turn black and give off a nasty chlorine smell each time you touch it. I touch each part of my design with the q-tip 10-20 times, or until I'm sure its deep enough.

 

Peel off the resist and the tape, wipe things down...and viola...there's your etched mark. Cheap, easy...effective, and no chemicals.

 

All done!

[R. Yates 1]

What are you using for your power supply ? is it in the other article?

 

Man that Blade and handle is Awesome a true work of art you should be very proud of this accomplishment and the work you have done with this knife .

 

Thank you for sharing it with us too.

 

Sam

[C.Anderson 13]

What are you using for your power supply ? is it in the other article?

 

Man that Blade and handle is Awesome a true work of art you should be very proud of this accomplishment and the work you have done with this knife .

 

Thank you for sharing it with us too.

 

Sam

 

Thanks Sam . I appreciate the compliment, and am very grateful for the opportunity to share.

 

As for the power supply, I mentioned it both above and in the article lol...its an old Sears Everstart battery charger. My understanding is most anything with current will work. From computer power supplies to 9v batteries. I do know that if you're using a battery charger, you need the kind that doesn't sense for load in order to charge. Either that or put it on the 'jump start' setting so it isn't looking to shut itself off when the battery is 'charged' lol.

[R. Yates 1]

Thank you I was reading the other page when you answered my question here . I'll leave it for others and finish reading the other article you posted . again Fantastic job with this Knife .

 

Sam

[James Spurgeon 22]

For kicks I started a thread in the video section demonstrating the super thin, super sharp edge on a Boning knife I made for my wife.

Well I made it for my wife, but she's too scared to use it...

http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=27065

James

[C.Anderson 13]

For kicks I started a thread in the video section demonstrating the super thin, super sharp edge on a Boning knife I made for my wife.

Well I made it for my wife, but she's too scared to use it...

http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=27065

James

 

Love it, lol. I have a few videos of sharpness testing on my YouTube I think...but those knives weren't designed to flex in any way, shape, or form. The geometry is such that it just ain't happening, lol.

[Alan Longmire 2,843]

You mind if I move this to Show and Tell and pin it? Lots of good info here!

[C.Anderson 13]

You mind if I move this to Show and Tell and pin it? Lots of good info here!

Not at all Alan! Thank you

[Alan Longmire 2,843]

On the contrary, thank you! Kitchen knives are an under-represented style around here.

[C.Anderson 13]

On the contrary, thank you! Kitchen knives are an under-represented style around here.

 

Well, in that case I'm more than happy I could contribute . I really do have an incredible level of appreciation for this place and the members here. Any skills I may have gained since the first blade I posted years ago is a direct result of the help and advice I've received from you all. When I feel I'm in a position to give back, doing anything less would be a shame.

[Don Nguyen 2]

Cris you know we're gonna need some good pictures from all angles

 

Looks fantastic!

[C.Anderson 13]

Cris you know we're gonna need some good pictures from all angles

 

Looks fantastic!

 

Thanks Don! I'm not the greatest with this 'good pictures' thing, lol...but I snapped a couple for now to get the feel across, then once its all ready to go, I'll try to get something worthwhile taken and posted.

 

Still needs tweaked here and there...the blade needs sealed for one lol, plus it needs sharpened. I set the edge angle at 14° included with an inexpensive 600g diamond stone, but I'm waiting for my 1200g and 8000g (extra fine and extra-extra fine...what a silly way to name them!) 8" continuous DMT plates to get here Saturday to finish the edge out. After that, I'll redo the etch to clean up any slips...then make a couple light passes with the 8000 and a strop to bring the edge back.

 

Its SO FREAKIN HARD to catch the color of this handle in pictures. It's not red, its not brown, its seriously a weird raspberry purple. This picture mixed with the last two would be close I guess, lol. Oh, and I didn't really explain the handle finish in my last posts. After all the sanding I hit it very lightly with a tripoly compound on a loose buff. After that basically I just soaked it in a mix of mineral oil and beeswax until it wouldn't take any more (keep slathering it on...let it dry, slather more, repeat). Once that was done, I buffed it again with a different loose buff that gets nothing but beeswax (I just buy a brick from the craft store, and load the buff with it like its a polishing compound). The finish is nice and smooth, slightly tacky, sheds water like mad, and gives at least a little bit of the luster of an external coat type finish...without the threat of a coating chipping off. I can't say I wouldn't like the finish to be brighter...but I won't do it at the expense of durability in the kitchen.

 

Anyhow, there's where it sits lol...if I manage to figure out how to take some better pictures, I'll post them...if not, well...there we go!

[james G. 1]

That one nice looking knife Cris .

[C.Anderson 13]

That one nice looking knife Cris .

 

Thanks James! I'm pretty happy with it . After doing the edge up today with the DMT stones, there's a noticeable difference in cutting efficiency. The bad news about this is that I haven't a clue what a high end kitchen knife is supposed to feel or like, lol (I know its better than the 'Good Cook' brand I used to use!). The good news is that a friend who is a professional chef has offered to take the knife for a week or two and critique for me before it goes off to its new owner.

 

I'm looking forward to it for sure .

[James Spurgeon 22]

Thanks James! I'm pretty happy with it . After doing the edge up today with the DMT stones, there's a noticeable difference in cutting efficiency. The bad news about this is that I haven't a clue what a high end kitchen knife is supposed to feel or like, lol (I know its better than the 'Good Cook' brand I used to use!). The good news is that a friend who is a professional chef has offered to take the knife for a week or two and critique for me before it goes off to its new owner.

 

I'm looking forward to it for sure .

 

How generous of them to offer their testing services! LOL

Good way to convince them to order one of their own too.

Looking really nice Cris!

James

[C.Anderson 13]

Thanks James!

 

Actually this whole post sort of came about for two reasons lol. The first purpose is that I was making this knife for Jae (my friend)...the second, is my chef friend had contacted me about me possibly making him one. Jae will love anything pretty that cuts better than a Wusthof Classic, so this blade is a guaranteed home run in that quarter lol. Professional chefs however, are much more discerning when it comes to their knives...not to mention that they use them 8-12hrs a day in a comparably harsh environment. Add to that the fact that I never liked making something 'good enough'...and having Sachem go over this knife with a fine tooth comb is a no brainer. If he likes it, I'll be making another for him to start a pass around with some of his chef friends...so it can be held up to more varied critique.

 

More critique is a good thing!

[R. Yates 1]

Mr. Anderson,

 

here is where I get my Sharpening Stones from they are the best of the best and if you want a cutting edge that will last and that is the best I recommend them X 1000% .

 

http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Sharpening-Stones-s/22.htm

 

2nd site is this one still the best and Natural Stones here: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/sharpening-stones.html

 

and the third for the best money & stones here : http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Naniwa-Super-Stone-P290C97.aspx

 

I hope this helps you and others in their search of the Best of Honing stones .

 

Awesome finish on the knife with the design fit and finish you have brought to light the importance of folks taking their time in all aspects of making a quality ,durable, usable , and show grade Knife at its Best again Well Done Brother .

 

Sam

[C.Anderson 13]

Thanks Sam! Those are great links and I'll definitely be taking advantage of them!!

 

Now, as promised, some final pictures. Today was very bright with a really even cloud cover...it made for some great pictures with rather accurate color...I was pretty excited once I saw, lol.

 

First the handle. The top picture is from the spine down, the second from the right side flat. The purpose of these was to a: show the color, and b: show the ways in which I deviated from the traditional octagonal bevel setup.

 

Knife profile and tip down.

 

Handle again.

 

Some choil shots. I was trying to show the shape of the convexity which sort of peaks at the upper middle portion of the blade.

 

Heel.

 

Overall stats:

Weight - 173g

Balance right at the ferrule (its a tad handle heavy in my opinion...the blade came out a good bit lighter than I expected)
Edge length - 225mm (8.5")

Heel to belly (flat part of edge) - 115mm (4.5")

Overall length - 365mm (14.4")

Height at heel - 40mm (1.57")

Height at midblade - 33.5mm (1.34")

Height 5cm from tip - 19mm (.75")

 

This blade was originally intended to be 9". I'd never quenched with oil (always brine), and so I wasn't prepared for the rather massive downturn in the blade post quench. I'd of course read about it, but seeing how drastic it was caught me off guard. I ended up having to shorten the blade by half an inch in order to get my edge profile back where I wanted it. I also ended up taking nearly a quarter inch off the heel to spine width in order to get the edge flat from heel to belly as well. This will be taken into consideration on the next one.

 

Blade: W1 drill rod.

Thickness at spine above heel - 2.35mm (.092")

Thickness 1cm above heel - 1.14mm (.045")

Thickness at spine midblade - 2.27mm (.090")

Thickness 1cm above edge midblade - 1.10mm (.043")

Thickness at spine 5cm from tip - 1.16mm (.046")

Thickness 1cm above edge 5cm from tip - .94mm (.037")

Thickness at spine 1cm from edge - .5mm (.020")

 

The blade seems to cut well. My previous attempt in W2 cuts marginally better, but is much thinner and more flexible. This doesn't bother me personally, but I was advised that a stiffer blade would be better in a professional kitchen. If this knife were being made for my own use, I'd have thinned it out a bit more behind the edge (from 50mm to 150mm above the edge in particular). As it is, I can't wait to get the feedback on it.

 

Handle: Stabilized cottonwood burl, African wenge, and brass (special thanks to Craig Stevens for the burl).

Length - 120mm (4.73")
Ferrule, width x height - 19.2mm x 22.8mm (.76"x..90")

Butt, width x height - 25.73mm x 25.92mm (1.013"x1.020")

 

I'm pretty happy with the handle. The young lady who is receiving it has smallish hands, thus the intentional shorter length. I considered thinning it out a little for balance, but to be honest...she seems very happy with the dimensions as/is. We discussed the handle size on her current favorite knife...and I think this will work out well for her.

 

So there we have it. The conclusion to our story . Again...overall I'm pretty happy with the knife. It turned out well despite a few foibles with warpage etc. I think my next projects may be some very short, wide bladed paring knives...similar to Japanese http://zknives.com/knives/knimgtmpl.shtml?http://images.zknives.com/knives/jpnkktype/aji1.jpg'>Ajikiri, only they'll likely be a double bevel. It'll be fun to knock out something with a smallish blade, so I can get back to doing a couple more handles . Who knew I'd enjoy working with wood nearly as much as steel?

 

Thank you all for following along!...and again, if you have any commentary or critique, I'm all ears. I love hearing others opinions, both good and bad. Its how I maintain the good, and improve the bad!

Cris

Edited August 5, 2013 by C.Anderson