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Shouldn't have read through those sword topics...


Caleb Harris
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So I've begun the forging of the blade. I can feel that it will be well balanced. The blade weighs about 1 pound 7 ounces. Steel is from a leaf spring.image.jpg

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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It's on its way! Looks like you just have a some straightening to do (my least favourite part), distal and proximal tapers, and bevels. How are you feeling about it? It's around this point in the forging is where I get nervous.

Feeling pretty good so far. It's been tedious as I had to forge this out of nearly square bar, and I've still gotta do a lot of heavy widening near the hilt, but I'm expecting to enjoy the bevelling and straightening.

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Coming along nicely, Caleb!

To become old and wise... You first have to survive being young and foolish! ;) Ikisu.blogsot.com. Email; milesikisu@gmail.com mobile: +27784653651

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Well, I figgered out how I'm gonna heat treat it. Turns out our woodstove gets hot enough. Who knew?

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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I did! Just watch out, eneven heating is a problem! Sometimes I've run out of gas over a weekend, and being impatient, fired up the stove! You have to move the blade constantly to even out the heat...if it's too long you may have a problem, best is small (1 inch ) pieces of hard wood charcoal, Get the fire going and then spread charcoal evenly and bury the blade in it keeping a watchfull eye on it, move in and out till colour is even, use a magnate to determine the temp, as soon as it does not stick to the blade, quench! It is a bit risky though, maybe you'll have a beter option by the time you are ready to HT still a long way to go yet! So be patient, perfect the blade to the best of your ability, and I'll be holding thumbs for you!

To become old and wise... You first have to survive being young and foolish! ;) Ikisu.blogsot.com. Email; milesikisu@gmail.com mobile: +27784653651

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Finally done forging the sword. I should have foreseen that I would not be able to taper/widen the blade as I had hoped. Too late now. I managed to get two of my siblings to pose.image.jpgimage.jpg

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Getting closer...keep going, it's going to look cool!

To become old and wise... You first have to survive being young and foolish! ;) Ikisu.blogsot.com. Email; milesikisu@gmail.com mobile: +27784653651

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I see you have a pair of Hobbits helping you there Caleb..blade is coming along there mate.

"Old dogs care about you even when you make mistakes" - Tom HALL - Old Dogs, Children and Watermelon wine.

 

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I should have foreseen that I would not be able to taper/widen the blade as I had hoped.

 

So what is the explanation to this ? Why could you not widen or taper the blade like you wanted to ? I know when I first started forging swords, I left the blades far too thick . It's easy to do, especially if you are starting out with 1/4 " material. Just remember that it saves a huge amount of time and labor to forge it close to the thickness you want as opposed to working it down for hours and hours with a file and angle grinder ( I'm assuming you don't have a 2 x 72 grinder ...welcome to the club ) . You certainly don't want a blade that feels clumsy, especially since you have no real counterweight in the antler hilt... looking good though!

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So what is the explanation to this ? Why could you not widen or taper the blade like you wanted to ? I know when I first started forging swords, I left the blades far too thick . It's easy to do, especially if you are starting out with 1/4 " material. Just remember that it saves a huge amount of time and labor to forge it close to the thickness you want as opposed to working it down for hours and hours with a file and angle grinder ( I'm assuming you don't have a 2 x 72 grinder ...welcome to the club ) . You certainly don't want a blade that feels clumsy, especially since you have no real counterweight in the antler hilt... looking good though!

i miscalculated when cutting the rough stock, and should have cut it a little wider. Instead, I cut the whole bar the same width, which was perfect for the last foot or so of the blade, but not enough to get the three inch wide I was hoping for near the hilt.

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Ok, the blade is normalized and I've started grinding. The blade calls for something simple in terms of a handle; I may have to redesign and rethink that.

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Did the rough grinding with the angle grinder followed up with files then sandpaper. image.jpg

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Ok, so I decided the antler grip is just not gonna look for this blade. Kinda sad, but I gotta let it go. I decided on a guard style similar to the one to the movie's depiction of Herugrim, Theoden's sword. I'm considering dragon or serpent heads in place of the horse heads.

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Ok, I need some help quick. I'm ready to harden the blade, but I've got a very small amount of oil. My mom makes a sort of hard lotion bar (think of it like lotion, but looking like a yellowish soap bar. Feels really nice on the hands), and she has some scrap stuff that got dirty or something. It's a mix of coconut oil, shea butter, and beeswax. Its soft at room temperature and melts a few degrees later. Would it work for quenching?

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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Did I read right that this is 1080? If so then you're probably not going to like your results from your oil/wax mixture.

 

You're going to want a very fast oil, a brine, or water quench. You have under one second to get your sword from 1500F to under 1000F in your quench for full martensite transformation. I do not think your mixture will get you there.

 

Best,

Adam

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Caleb, don't do that. Quenching in oil can be dangerous. Besides speed, you also want an oil with a high enough flash point. You can do some top of the envelope calculations about how much quenching oil you need to keep its temperature below its flash point. Here is some data on some oils. Whatever you end up doing wear protective gear, e.g. full face visor, leather gloves, long sleeves, no synthetic materials, etc.

 

Niels.

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As was said in your other thread on quenching, DO NOT QUENCH LEAF SPRING IN ANYTHING BUT OIL! I know you really want to move forward on this, but you're at the make-or-break (literally!) point on the blade. Take the time to do it right so you don't have to do it again when it cracks.

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Your sword is coming along nicely Caleb. I agree about the oil, leaf spring can be tricky but oil is the best way to go. How do you plan on tempering? You don't want to wait long after the quench to temper. I've had a blade or two crack because I let it cool too long (overnight); they were leaf spring too. I wish you well.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2 (KJV)

bezalelblades.blogspot.com

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Your sword is coming along nicely Caleb. I agree about the oil, leaf spring can be tricky but oil is the best way to go. How do you plan on tempering? You don't want to wait long after the quench to temper. I've had a blade or two crack because I let it cool too long (overnight); they were leaf spring too. I wish you well.

I've got a blowtorch I use for my forge; I'm planning on tempering the spine to a blue. And about that cooling too long; directly after quenching, wouldn't it be completely cool then? How and why did they break?

 

I managed to get some (free :D ) motor oil. It doesn't smell the best, but it should work.

Trying to make each knife just a little better than the last

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I've got a blowtorch I use for my forge; I'm planning on tempering the spine to a blue. And about that cooling too long; directly after quenching, wouldn't it be completely cool then? How and why did they break?

 

I managed to get some (free :D ) motor oil. It doesn't smell the best, but it should work.

 

To harden a blade it doesn't have to completely cool to room temperature, it just has to drop a certain amount below critical within a certain amount of time. The blade can be boiling hot when taken out of the oil and it will still be hard as glass. (Do some reading about the "pearlite nose" graph, it helps explain why this is true.) I've hardened a punch before and actually used the residual heat after hardening to temper the edge. Hardening builds up immense stresses inside the steel, hence the need for tempering. If a blade is left to sit too long after hardening those stresses can eventually cause the blade to crack though it may take a while before that happens. I'm not certain on the chemistry involved, but that's how I understand it. Anyhow, that's why you should always temper as soon as possible after hardening. (My instructor has an example piece of a stainless laminate blade that was left to cool over night after quenching and the stainless actually pulled apart from the high carbon core and the blade is now in two pieces. Pretty crazy!)

 

Your torch will work for tempering. I suggest you have some water and rags on hand to cool it if it starts getting too hot. Motor oil is what I use, should work great! Hope it goes well.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2 (KJV)

bezalelblades.blogspot.com

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Oups! Count my words out Caleb. Wrong alloy, wrong quenchant.

 

It's already been posted, but oil is the way to go with leaf springs. Without knowing the chemistry, its hard to peg the exact alloy but most people I've talked with treat it as 5160. 5160 is an oil quencher in the knife world.

 

5160-HTG-TTT-001.jpg

 

The Pearlite nose graph is a good one to know. It goes by a couple of names and the best results are found using "triple T graph" "TTT Graph" or "Isothermal Transformation Diagram" this tells you what to expect when you quench at a certain speed. For this case, in order to get past the "nose" you have about 4 seconds to go from 1550F to below ~900F. If you can manage that and continue cooling at an appropriate rate then you should end up with a fully hardened knife. The horizontal line marked Ms is your martensite start temperature, about ~475F. This is the temperature that martensite starts forming. Get down to about 400 degrees and you can maintain this temperature for hours (days... weeks... I'd have to look) and still be hard. That being said, you'll be looking for something a bit more spring like than glass hard. If you don't let your sword reach room temperature for a while then you end up tempering martensite as it forms. It is still a good idea to do a separate tempering run after cooling to room temp.

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I don't think it is more dangerous to quench leaf spring in brine it is rather that 5160 does not need the fast quench. if you really have to quench in water make sure that the entire blade is cooled at the same time so there is not too much stress. I had to quench a 5160 3 times first time was in a mix of motor oil and brake fluid which burst into flame and did not harden the blade. second time in brine made from ice melt and tap water that was nearly below freezing hardened the blade much more but missed the tip. 3rd time fully hardened the blade. 1 hour temper between each heat treat and quenching in brine was edge first dropped as fast as possible into the brine.

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