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Vert hawk/blade forge Questions


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I have been forging at my buddies shop for years and am at the point with orders I need to build a forge at my house as my buddy is an hour away. His forge is a simple blown forge with cast-o-lite liner about 10" total length and uses bricks for the doors on both ends. It works great for the hawks and axes I build but its a bit inefficent for me and I dont have nat gas at my place either to tap into so I am leaning toward a vertical. I have a coal forge but only use it to weld with so the gasser is going to be used for blades and solid billet hawks.

 

Here is what I have so far:

 

I picked up a blown burner from Ellis( Now High temp) years ago when Ellis still owned it. 2" plumbing reduces to 1" I added a 100cfm fan to it. The burner is setup just as Geoff has so diligently posted over the years with 1/4 shut-offs and a needle valve going into the burner. I know the burner is set to go and I have run it several times and if anything its too much and I may need to swap the 100cfm fan out for the 60cfm sitting in my shop.

 

Currently the forge body is 18 long with a 10" ID. The bottom is 2" of kaowool and another 2" along the walls. From the bottom of the floor to where the burner comes in is 1.5" The burner port is on a tangent. All surfaces are coated in ridgidizer, satanite, ITC-100 and I have held off on adding the bubble alumina depending on whether I go horizontal or vertical.

 

How high above the burner port do I need to go before I make the port for the doors and how fickle is the door shape on a vert? I ask because a 2x4" slot would be all I would ever need for the knives and hawks so would there be a problem with back pressure or too much breath coming out a slot rather than the standard ports I see?

 

how close to the top of the forge does the slot need to be? If I understand it right the higher it is the better the mix and even the heat. Setup as it is right now I have a 5"chamber in the center which is plenty for what i do.

 

I have electric heat treat ovens and wont be using the forge for that, just forging the hawks and blades.

 

thanks

 

shane

 

Here is a hawk I normally make to give you an idea. L6 solid billet.

 

 

20140303_210436_zpsbjfouezg.jpg

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I don't understand the point of vert forges...you can only heat up 6 inches at a time. Fine for welding, but what's the next thing you do after welding? Drawing out to length. That same body on it's side could heat up 16 inches at once. Plus, if you have 2 or three burners in line you can selectively heat one area by turning off the other burners. Been smithin 30 years, I have both types and the vert sits in a corner.

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I don't understand the point of vert forges...you can only heat up 6 inches at a time.

 

 

Thats the point. For what I do and for the amount of blade I can efficiently work I dont need any more than 6" heated at a time.

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I hadn't considered that you don't have a power hammer. Still, if you expand into ornamental work like gates etc. it helps to heat longer sections to do pickets, rails, and scrolls. On my vert we put the slot a third of the way down from the top.

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I am just a blade and hawksmith and dont plan to do any ornamental work. I use the coal forge for brooches, bodkins, strikers and such but my interest are mainly blades and hawks.

 

Any issues with cutting a thin wide slot rather than a tall skinny one?

 

Lol I will add moving L6 billets by hand is not easy and a more sensible person would probably use a treadle or power hammer but I have never been accused of being sensible! Once the techniques are figured out the heads form quickly even starting form a 3/4x 2x4 billet.

Edited by shane wink
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So back on topic, I cut the ports into the forge and with a 1" thick hard firebrick laying in the port for a floor I still have the 4 x 2 port.

 

The internal chamber measures 4.5 in Dia from top to bottom. Is this too small of a chamber? I can take a layer of insulation out making the internal 6" Dia if that would be better.

 

Is the 2" pipe fitting burner with 100 cfm fan on it overkill for a vert this size? As mentioned I also have the 1.50 fitting burner and another fan thats 60 cfm.

 

I ordered some more ridgidizer and satanite since I pulled the kaowool out and started over. i will get a pic of the forge showing the progress but not having built one like this before I am just unsure of a couple things so any help on the burner size and the chamber size before I apply the coatings would be welcomed.

 

 

DSCF4003 (1).jpg

DSCF4004.jpg

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Edited by shane wink
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I think 4.5" is too small, and you may want/need a back door as well, both for venting and dragon's breath control. I would also think the smaller burner would be enough for welding, but if you want to melt some steel the big one will do it! :lol:

 

I've been looking at my stainless tea urn forge shell and the roll of wool in it for five years now without deciding on vertical or horizontal, so you're miles ahead of me as it is. ;)

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Thanks Alan. The doors go all the way through across from one another and its hard to see that in the pic but do you mean it may need an additional opening as well?

 

Yes the big one melted the nozzle off the first few times I ran it trying in the horizontal to get the gas mixer correct several years ago which is why its just been in the shop lol!

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Great! I will remove the other layer and open the chamber up to 6.5 and place the 1.50 burner on there with the 60cfm fan to start.

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