Choice of steel

[jkthors]

Hi!

 

I am planning to forge my first sword soon. I have never tried it before, and i have some questions about a good steel composition.

 

We are going to make our own steel from pig iron, and i was wondering if anybody had a good recommendation for a beginner steel composition?

 

I have read that 5160 steel is often being used. Will a 0.6% C be a good starting point, or are there any pitfalls i should worry about? And is the manganese and chrome that necessary, since its main objective is to make the steel stainless?

 

 

 

 

[Alan Longmire]

First, welcome aboard!

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds to me as though you might not have the experience needed to do what you are asking about. "beginner steel composition" and "make our own steel from pig iron" are two phrases that do not naturally go together.

 

I would recommend 5160 as a good sword steel, but you really need to do more research into the whys of alloying. The manganese and chromium in 5160 are there primarily to promote deeper hardening, they are not present in anywhere near enough quantity to affect corrosion resistance. 5160 is far from a stainless steel, in other words.

 

Have you had much experience forging knives? If not, I strongly recommend you make a few smaller blades before you tackle a sword.

[Doug Lester]

Is there a specific reason that you are going to try to make a steel that is readily available? You also seem to have a poor understanding of what alloying elements do. Manganese is used to deoxidize the steel and to form some carbides. Chromium controls depth of hardening and also contributes to carbide formation. The chromium does not make the steel stainless until it gets over 14% and is often combined with nickel.

 

The majority of people who make their own steel do so to produce a steel that is not available commercially, such a a blumery steel or a blister steel. Most start off with an iron ore. Starting off with pig iron you are going to have to find a way to reduce the carbon content. It's not the same as wrought iron. I suggest that you read up on steel production on these boards and maybe look up what alloying elements really do.

 

Doug

[Jerrod Miller]

From your post I can tell that you are in no way prepared for what you are wanting to do. While your end goal is definitely attainable, it will take a long time to get there. Spend a couple months (at least) doing nothing but reading this forum. Take your time, it will likely spin your head often, it still does for me! Especially read the "Metallurgy and Other Enigmas" and "Bloomers and Buttons" sub-forums as well as every single pinned thread out there. And you will definitely want to start with Ric's awesome project here: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=23296

 

Then when you are ready make a small knife. After you have despaired at the difficulty to get even mildly respectable results, do it again. Then make a big knife. Sword making is incredibly difficult, making your own steel is incredibly difficult, and doing both is more challenging than the sum of the parts. If you really want to do it, I assure you that it IS possible. You just don't dive into it. I am a metallurgist at a steel foundry (we make a lot of steel every day) and I'm not even ready to do it at home yet. I've been smithing for a few years (though not as often/regularly as I would like) and I am certainly not ready for a sword sized project.

 

As I type I see Alan and Doug have beat me to the punch, but please do keep this in mind: Everyone here wishes you the best of luck and will help out tremendously. There is an amazing collection of knowledge and experience already posted in this forum. Turn back now to save yourself a lot of headache and heartache, or delve deep into the forum and loose yourself into the bottomless rabbit hole that it is. I for one have no regrets choosing to pursue the craft.

[MLenaghan]

I just wanna throw in, add your location! You never know one of us could be just down the street from you

[Karter Schuster]

Welcome aboard!

[jkthors]

Thank you for answering and the welcome. Great tips that I really appreciate.

 

I will not make the steel myself. There is a team of metallurgist(not kidding) that will do this. It is a part of a university project combining several departments. My main tasks are the smithing and some material analysis post-production. I am not a metallurgist myself, but I have some knowledge about metal composition. Not nearly enough though, being a mechanical engineering student focusing mostly on mechanics and production.

 

They asked me if I could find an alloy. I have ordered some books, but it takes some time for them to get to me. So I figured if I asked here, I could get some initial tips for the alloy, so that we would not make a huge mistake already at the beginning. I will read up on the links you guys sent me.

 

We will make knives for practice, before trying to make the sword. I realise that it is not easy, but we will try our best.

[J.Arthur Loose]

Assuming I'm understanding... I would suggest finding someone who is good at forging a sword, because a badly forged, ground or heat treated sword, to say nothing of alloy content would make a terrible study for material analysis, and wouldn't end up providing good science. It takes a long time to get good at this.

[Doug Lester]

Now that I understand your situation more clearly I would concentrate on getting the carbon contend down to around 0.60-0.80% with a bit of manganese and chromium for depth of hardness and carbide formation and some aluminum along with the manganese for deoxidation. It would be interesting to see what equipment your metalurgist will be working with to turn molten steel into a bar of steel.

 

Doug