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SHAWN FERGUSON

NEW GUY BURNER QUESTIONS

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I'm planning my first forge and I have a couple of burner questions.

In a 2 burner forge, if I only run 1 burner for a small project will I have issues with heat coming up the dormant burner and causing damage?

 

My other question is about the burners. I've noticed the biggest difference in burner design is the tube. I've seen all shapes, long, fat, skinny, vertical, horizontal, and ones that start vertical and bend to horizontal. What is best for a beginner?

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I assume that you are talking about venturi burners, as opposed to blown. This thread talks all about blown burners, which I think are simpler than venturi.

 

Geoff

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You should shut off the air intake on the dormant burner, when you shut joff the forge you should shut off the air intake for both burners to keep the heat from chimneying up the burner.

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Yes, Venturi burners. Basing my design off the Zoeller side arm i found on this forum. I might end up changing that because i'm finding it difficult to find the reducing tees at a reasonable price What about the size of the tube? i'm assuming that a larger tube would give a better air/fuel mix but too big would need more pressure to work properly.

 

Thanks Wayne, that's what i was thinking.

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I am convinced that a Ribbon Burner is the way to go if you have electricity . I am welding up Damascus billets with no flux at about 1/2# of Propane. There are quite a few using them out in your area. Check out the attachments on my Forge Supplies page on my web-site.

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I assume that you are talking about venturi burners, as opposed to blown. This thread talks all about blown burners, which I think are simpler than venturi.

 

Geoff

 

Now Geoff yer gonna go an git him hooked on simplicity......... ;):D

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For me the blown burner was the least complicated and most cost efficient setup. Geoff walked me through the details, and with some fine tuning of the fuel to air mix you get an incredibly potent forge

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Had my plan, made my shopping list, and ready to go. Now I'm looking at blown burners. Thanks now I'll have twice as many questions.

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You want about 100 cfm, very much more than that is way too much, OTOH, if you find a bigger fan for a good price, you can always choke it back to get what you need.

 

Geoff

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i wasted a bit of time on ventury before going blown i ahve both worked out and running .......i use the blown for 90% of what i do


2485

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I've used both and consider a blown burner the only way to go unless for some reason you don't have electricity to run the blower.

 

Doug

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OK, everyone says blown is better, so I guess I go blown. From what I've read, I will need 2 burners to support about 565 cu in. Would I run 1 fan and 1 gas line then spit that to feed the 2 burners or should each burner have it's own gas feed? Tried to attach a diagram but cant see how.

 

Forgot to ask. is there an orifice or something on the needle valve?

Edited by SHAWN FERGUSON

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For the counter point: I started with blown and now run venturi. I like that I don't need an extension cord running near my forging area since I tend to drop glowing metal (I really should make more tongs to reduce the frequency). I also love how quiet it is (comparatively). Mine is a vertical forge, and yes it gets to welding temp with a neutral flame in a few minutes.

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There is no orifice, the 1/8th inch (or whatever) opening in the needle valve is all it needs. A venturi burner needs a small orifice and high pressure (relatively) to create the venturi effect. The blown burner uses the fan to create flow through the burner.

 

I believe the 1 burner per 350 CI is more about venturi burners than blown systems. A blown system, properly built, has some head room on the fan, cram more air and more fuel into it, and you get more heat. The thing I question is the size of your forge. Though it's tough to understand at first, smaller is better.

 

Geoff

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Hi Shawn, out of curiosity why have you decided to make a two burner forge as your first forge? In general, single burner forges work quite well for most bladesmithing applications where ideally you are only heating a hands width of blade or so at a shot. Like Geoff said, smaller often is better (and one burner, be it venturi or blown, is easier to run than two).

Edited by Guy Thomas
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I understand the logic behind a smaller forge. Ideally I would like maybe 3 forges. 1 for horseshoes, 1 for knives, and 1 for long daggers and short swords (if I get good). I was looking at 6" wide by 20" long as kind of a catch all. I guess i could alter my plan by cutting a door on the other side to pass longer stock through, would that make more sense? If i only need to heat part of the blade at a time there's no need to have the whole thing in the forge right?

 

 

FYI, i'm not a farrier. I live by Norco so i got an endless supply of used horseshoes. I make wall hangings, hat hooks, bottle holders. My wife calls it western art. Art sounds snobby. They can call it what they want I just make what they ask for.

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Do a search here for forge design or vertical forge. A horizontal forge might work best for your horseshoe projects because it has a floor, and it will work for knives. In the end a vertical forge will work better for blade projects. I just forged a 30" backsword blade in my vertical forge which has a hot zone about 5 inches long.

 

The problem with a long horizontal forge is that, in order to heat the middle of the blade, you have to heat the whole thing. This often ends with burning the tip of the piece. The time when you want to heat the whole blade is when you are heat treating it. Then you do want to heat a long length. However, many smiths get past this problem by stroking the blade through a smaller forge until the length gets up to temperature.

 

As I said before, smaller is better. The smallest forge that will handle the work you do, is better than a gigantic one that tries to do everything. One of your chief costs in this is fuel, a big forge burns a lot of fuel. I have 4 forges in my shop, plus an electric HT oven. One is a 2 brick tabletop thing I do springs and small parts in. There is no point in firing up one of the bigger forges to do a job the little will handle.

 

Geoff

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I always tell new smiths that the biggest mistake that you will make it to build a big forge. You can only forge about 6" at a time. I believe, as Geoff said, You only need a long forge for heat treating but you can get around that by moving the blade back and forth to get a uniform heat.

 

Again I suggest that you "Check out the attachments on my Forge Supplies page on my web-site."

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