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Is it ever too early to think about the KITH?

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I had planned on pitching a hawk/axe/hatchet theme for this year. I love making them, havent made any since I moved to KY last summer and if that wasnt enough, saw Alan's bearded axe thread :). I was fully hell-bent on axes until about 5 minutes ago.

I think this is an amazing idea. It focuses more on the process than the finished product and has the potential for some seriously creative and amazing pieces. Not to mention the WIPs from everyone will be phenomenal.

I am excited already.

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:D

Thanks Dan!

That is exactly why I pitched it! I saw something similar on another web site a couple of years ago (Paleoplanet), and always wondered what us blade-nuts could do with something like this.

Lets try to give those chump producers of FiF a run for there money! (if any of the producers of FiF are reading this, I in NO way disparage you... MAD props to you for the blade-making realitainment you are making, and I would so LOVE to compete on your show <3)

 

-Gabriel

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I had planned on pitching a hawk/axe/hatchet theme for this year. I love making them, havent made any since I moved to KY last summer and if that wasnt enough, saw Alan's bearded axe thread :). I was fully hell-bent on axes until about 5 minutes ago.

 

Only problem i have with Hawks/Axes/Hatchets are Brut de Forge..... I personally dislike the style, and almost no one puts refinement on ax-type blades these days, its all Brut de Forge. I am not saying that the BdF style is "lazy" or without skill, I just personally enjoy a blade that has effort put into the fit and finish as well as the design. Also the reason i do not make rasp blades, the file/rasp pattern is desired in the finished product and personally i don't go for that

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Gabriel, that is a great suggestion! I am totally in!

It looks like this is the likely the KITH for 2016, and even if it isn't I am loving the idea and will do it anyway.

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The online part was what I was hoping would be avoided. This really is about getting out there into your community and picking the brains of your LOCAL hardware store... even if it is a bigbox.

So can we all at least be agreed that you have to get yourself into the store and talk to actual human beings?

-Gabriel

 

Hmmm.....picking unripe fruit. Not my favorite pastime.

So, this is a concept endeavor.

OK, I'm in.

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Hmmm.....picking unripe fruit. Not my favorite pastime.

So, this is a concept endeavor.

OK, I'm in.

 

Um... sorry I don't understand, which is the unripe fruit? the hardware store brains or this idea? Knowing me a little of both ;)

 

So tomorrow I will start the sign up thread. Keep it open till the end of January? and how long should we have? 6 months?

-Gabriel

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Um... sorry I don't understand, which is the unripe fruit? the hardware store brains or this idea? Knowing me a little of both ;)

 

So tomorrow I will start the sign up thread. Keep it open till the end of January? and how long should we have? 6 months?

-Gabriel

You said "picking the brains at the local hardware store". That's the unripe fruit. I don't seem to have the quality you have at your local store! Your idea is a good one. Also, I thought about what good blade steels you can get at the local store. I remembered that the local hardware store/tool rental place has old worn out jack hammer bits for sale. I bought some a long time ago to make fullers and stuff out of. Heat treated it as for O-1. Tough stuff.

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I went to home depot to buy some rope and the employees arent allowed to carry pocket knives! They have to use box cutters!!! I wasnt allowed to cut the rope myself (who do I sue about that?) And when the guy that was cutting the rope reached for his tendon destroying box cutter he had the most uneasy dissapointed look on his face, I let him use my knife, when it cut the rope it was like I passed a big test as a knife maker and I felt really good about it.

 

Funny how it seems like such an insignificant thing, he didn't notice the brass dragons head in the handle on the end of the tang, he just used it to cut.

 

I regret not joining in the puuko kith so I'm definitely in on this one!

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I am in on this one!

 

I am game for anything goes within the concept of a bowie out of hardware store materials.

 

I'm even OK with damascus blades containing rebar(if you must) or post consumer steel (does that even qualify as hardware store material?) as long as it is worked to a moderate (50 to 100+) layer count.

But, please, not for monosteel or low layer damascus.

 

For example, I have used bed springs quite successfully once I get them braided or twisted together tight enough to weld 9 or more pieces like a cable damascus and fold 4 or more times.

 

I put rebar in the same category as recycled material because I make cold work chisels out of it. They work fine most of the time, but every now and then, one will refuse to harden without a SuperQuench and another from the same bar develops spiderweb cracking in a hydraulic oil quench. I haven't tried it in a damascus, but folding or stacking a few cycles should even it out.

 

James

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Think I'll join this year, this one sounds fun.

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Is someone going to post the final set of guidelines regarding this one?

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on a side note, I live across the street from my regional Grizzly Industrial showroom..... it is also the only hardware type store for a few miles, that counts as a local hardware store right? 450,000 sq foot showroom to play with =D

http://www.grizzly.com/showrooms/mo

Edited by S. Cruse

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I'm in. Might grab some grounding rod and remelt it in a hearth and make some higher carbon stuff.
The rest is simple.
Like Allen said there are very nice hickory and maple handles and plenty of milt steel or copper for fittings.
This one is going to be fun.
Just a thought for everyone.
My hardware store and the farm store both sell farriers rasps.
They should be 1045 and will harden in water :)

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I actually love this idea,feels sort of like the Forged in Fire Competition show.

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I'm also assuming having hardware stores order material should be considered the same as ordering material online?

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Two things I am waiting to hear before committing to this.... What is the due date, and could we get a rough definition of 'bowie knife'....;)

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is a pattern of fixed-blade fighting knife created by James Black in the early 19th century for Jim Bowie, who had become famous for his use of a large knife at a duel known as the Sandbar Fight.

Since the first incarnation, the Bowie knife has come to incorporate several recognizable and characteristic design features, although in common usage the term refers to any large sheath knife with a crossguard and a clip point.The knife pattern is still popular with collectors; in addition to various knife manufacturing companies there are hundreds of custom knife makers producing Bowies and variations.

 

 

average blade length it stats 8.5"- 12.5"

 

is the wiki definition

 

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/lnb01

 

 

paints a similar but more detailed definition and history.

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Since I haven't seen anyone else make a "Rules" list, I though I'd go ahead and make one that I find reasonable. I don't want to constrain us to specific rules so hopefully these are fairly broad. The purpose is to learn and have fun!

 

Kith 2016 Guidelines:

 

1: All materials must be purchased from your local hardware store (in-store, no ordering). For example: Lowe's, Home depot, local farm supply stores, tractor supply stores. Grainger and stores like it are NOT an option. They leave little to the imagination. The purpose of this Kith is to think outside of the box when buying materials. For example: Shovels, pry-bars (and there are plenty more but I don't want to give away my ideas ;)) Basically anything that will harden.

 

2: Handle material has to be purchased from the same stores listed above. It can be anything. As said before, think outside of the box.

 

3: The style of the blade will be of a Bowie knife (google Bowie Knife and you get the idea) Your design can be open to interpretation, however the blade must have a clip on the spine. Something like below would maybe be ok (I'm still debating), however it's very close to a fighter.

Dog%252520Bone%252520Bowie%252520003.jpg

 

4: The blade (cutting edge) should be at least 8" inches (203.2mm).

 

5: Overall length = Up to you. (Keep it reasonable, this isn't a chopper or a short sword :P)

 

6: It must have a cross guard.

 

7: The handle must be of a hidden tang or frame handle construction. It does not have to have a pommel. (Not everyone has the tools to do this)

 

8: Sheath materials do not have to be bought from the store but you can if you like. I think this should mainly be focused on learning new things regarding knives. This could be up to debate though so I'll let the official guideline maker have the liberties.

 

 

(Side note: Belts, epoxy, bluing, files, and anything that helps create the knife can be ordered online and are not considered materials)

 

 

If anyone wants to add on or edit something, please feel free to throw their idea out there. I'm sure I missed something but please remember to keep the rules rather simple and straight forward.

 

Thanks!

Edited by Austin_Lyles

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Since I haven't seen anyone else make a "Rules" list, I though I'd go ahead and make one that I find reasonable. I don't want to constrain us to specific rules so hopefully these are fairly broad. The purpose is to learn and have fun!

 

Kith 2016 Guidelines:

 

1: All materials must be purchased from your local hardware store (in-store, no ordering). For example: Lowe's, Home depot, local farm supply stores, tractor supply stores. Grainger and stores like it are NOT an option. They leave little to the imagination. The purpose of this Kith is to think outside of the box when buying materials. For example: Shovels, pry-bars (and there are plenty more but I don't want to give away my ideas ;)) Basically anything that will harden.

 

2: Handle material has to be purchased from the same stores listed above. It can be anything. As said before, think outside of the box.

 

3: The style of the blade will be of a Bowie knife (google Bowie Knife and you get the idea) Your design can be open to interpretation, however the blade must have a clip on the spine. Something like below would maybe be ok (I'm still debating), however it's very close to a fighter.

Dog%252520Bone%252520Bowie%252520003.jpg

 

4: The blade (cutting edge) should be at least 8" inches (203.2mm).

 

5: Overall length = Up to you. (Keep it reasonable, this isn't a chopper or a short sword :P)

 

6: It must have a cross guard.

 

7: The handle must be of a hidden tang or frame handle construction. It does not have to have a pommel. (Not everyone has the tools to do this)

 

8: Sheath materials do not have to be bought from the store but you can if you like. I think this should mainly be focused on learning new things regarding knives. This could be up to debate though so I'll let the official guideline maker have the liberties.

 

 

(Side note: Belts, epoxy, bluing, files, and anything that helps create the knife can be ordered online and are not considered materials)

 

 

If anyone wants to add on or edit something, please feel free to throw their idea out there. I'm sure I missed something but please remember to keep the rules rather simple and straight forward.

 

Thanks!

 

Austin kinda hit the nail on the head of what I was thinking...

I do think sheaths should be optional. If one has the time by all means go ahead, but not necessary to participate in the KITH. Seems like people start bowing out because they feel overwhelmed by the deadline.

That said I feel the deadline should be July 1st. If that works for everyone? We all seem to be fairly flexible lot so if one need extra time I think we can all work around it. REMEMBER: this is fun, not a burden!

 

Sorry I have not responded, I have been dealing with the plague my daughter brought home.

-Gabriel

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The only modifications to Austin's rule list I would suggest would be as follows:

 

4. The blade (from guard to point) should be at least 8" inches (203.2mm).

6: It must have a double branch guard.

 

Reasoning:

Typically, blade length includes the ricasso area (that's my understanding) and "cross guards" are typically symmetrical (also my understanding).

So, I'd like to have more design options available that include asymmetrical guards, but I agree the HITH knife should have a guard that extends above the spine and below the belly.

Personally, I do not think a "Bowie" has a double branch guard as a required design element, but I think it's a good requirement for the KITH.

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Yes Joshua! That's what I was trying to get at but my brain was in sleep mode late last night. I couldn't think of a way that described a guard that extends above the spine... And a good point about symmetrical and asymmetrical guards. I too would like the flexibilty of more design options.

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Everyone participating should have a say.

I for one love the anarchy of democracy!

So all pitch in your ideas.

I just wanted traditional-ish flavor, since there has to be a lot of non-traditional techniques in making the knife. Again, I want to stress... FUN! this is to be fun! To many rules and this becomes tedious.

 

The blade must be at least 8 inches is my vote. All else I feel can be ones interpretation.

 

-Gabriel

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some of the most amazing Bowie knives I have seen are not clip point and/or have asymmetrical cross guards. Gary Mulkey makes some prime examples.

 

That being said, size and materials should be defined, and a general concept should be put forth. Actual design should be in the hands of the smith, even Forged In Fire says "in your signature style" for creation, allowing for diversity and excellence. No one wants to make a cookie cutter knife, it can be the most unrewarding to soul-crushing experience you have at an anvil, but loose and basic guidelines are needed for KiTH

Edited by S. Cruse

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Another thing to consider...most of my local hardware/farm supply stores carry a wide variety of dog chews. This includes beautiful (although pricey) pieces of antler which lend themselves well to a Bowie handle. Also, rawhide chew toys can be soaked and unraveled into usable strips of rawhide for making sheaths.

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